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Originally posted by David Floyd
Maybe, but who is going to support these Communist movements? Not the Soviet Union, which did NOT historically.
Fixed. Not only did the USSR not aid these movements, it actively pulled the rug out from underneath them. It only aided them in the areas it directly controlled, and then not always. In Manchuria, it turned captured Japanese supplies over to the Kuomintang (which was still China's official representative in the Comintern), not the Red Army.
Christianity: The belief that a cosmic Jewish Zombie who was his own father can make you live forever if you symbolically eat his flesh and telepathically tell him you accept him as your master, so he can remove an evil force from your soul that is present in humanity because a rib-woman was convinced by a talking snake to eat from a magical tree...
I'd like to challenge that... If Germany had pushed on immediately after Dunkirk, it would have been very very difficult for the English. A matter of leaving no time for the English to get reorganized.
Of course, waiting is a disaster, so the attack would have had to be a blitz.
The germans may have had a chance of getting a division or 2 ashore, however the RN was preapred to use vast numbers( and in 1940 they had alot) of it's destroyers and cruisers in the english chanel, this would have meant there was no chance of resupply.
I believe there were enough Cnadian troops in england at the time to deal with 2 unsupplied german divisions let alone the assorted number of UK units.
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Fixed. Not only did the USSR not aid these movements, it actively pulled the rug out from underneath them. It only aided them in the areas it directly controlled, and then not always. In Manchuria, it turned captured Japanese supplies over to the Kuomintang (which was still China's official representative in the Comintern), not the Red Army.
Actually, the Soviets were very active giving covert support to Communist movements all over Europe. Italy, Greece, France, etc. Granted, much of this aid was very covert, but it was there. The Soviets also actively aided the Spanish Socialists during their Civil War. The Soviets created and propped up Communist puppet states all over Eastern Europe. To say the Soviets did not sponser international communism is just not true.
That's a generalization that doesn't hold up under close scrutiny. We're talking about post-WWII, so the aid the Soviets gave the Spanish Republic aren't relevant here (and, it should be noted, that the USSR supported the Spanish Republic, not Communist revolution--both the Anarchists and the non-Stalinist communists were crushed by the Communist Party of Spain). During the war, yes, the Soviets gave aid to communist partisans in Europe, but at the end of the war, they turned their back on them. Any area where the Soviets didn't have military control, the Soviets ordered the communists to turn over their weapons, even in areas where the Communists had defeated the Nazis and had taken power, such as in Northern Italy, Greece, Yugoslavia, and Albania. In Italy the Communists obeyed, and in Greece when they refused they were attacked by the British. Tito and Hoxha were able to tell Stalin to stick and not be attacked by the West.
During the war, Stalin officially ended the Comintern (which had had its last Congress in 1935 anyway), in order to placate his allies. The division between my movement, the Trotskyists, and the main stream communists, the Stalinists, was precisely over whether to spread communism internationally or not. We, the Trotskyists, were the internationalists. Stalin was opposed to it, because he didn't want to antagonize the West. The revolutions that occurred in China, Vietnam, Cuba, etc. occurred in spite of the USSR, not because of it.
Christianity: The belief that a cosmic Jewish Zombie who was his own father can make you live forever if you symbolically eat his flesh and telepathically tell him you accept him as your master, so he can remove an evil force from your soul that is present in humanity because a rib-woman was convinced by a talking snake to eat from a magical tree...
That basically makes my point. During the war, the Soviets shipped arms and equipment to communist partisans, and then after the war, in any area where they could make it stick, the propped up communist regimes. Just because the failed on the diplomatic front to make it stick in areas outside of their control doesn't mean that they didn't build a chain of communist puppet states anywhere they could get away with it.
Originally posted by David Floyd
The B-36 could have delivered atomic bombs to any target in Germany, flying from CONUS above the operational ceiling of any German fighter starting in 1947.
By 1947 Germany would have had operational surface to air missiles easily capable of picking off a lumbering B-36.
Access to Russian mineral resources would have allowed German engineers to overcome the deficiencies of their jet engines and possibly be close to a second generation jet fighter. Even without that Germany had considerable technology for supercharged conventional engines and pressurised high altitude aircraft - enough to develop a high altitude fighter had they needed one. They also had a viable air to air missile in the Kramer X-4 Ruhrstahl.
The US probably only had a dozen or so atomic weapons by the time of the Korean war. They stopped after 2 bombs on Japan mainly because they had no more to use at that time. Being able to do enough damage to a German dominated Western Europe to force favourable terms is unlikely, especially if Germany was able to strike back with long range or submarine launched missiles.
Originally posted by David Floyd
That basically makes my point. During the war, the Soviets shipped arms and equipment to communist partisans, and then after the war, in any area where they could make it stick, the propped up communist regimes. Just because the failed on the diplomatic front to make it stick in areas outside of their control doesn't mean that they didn't build a chain of communist puppet states anywhere they could get away with it.
No it dosen't.
Stalin just wanted to dominate as much as he could and he didn't want any communists that he couldn't completly control since they might pose an ideological threat to him. Like Che said he was a hinderance to the spread of Communism in any area except the region of eastern Europe that he knew he could turn into satelites right after the war.
The partisans of Yugoslavia got far more aid from Britain (frequent airdrops intelligence aid. than they did from the Soviet Union (next to nill!).
Modern man calls walking more quickly in the same direction down the same road “change.”
The world, in the last three hundred years, has not changed except in that sense.
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The Germans hadn't assembled any shipping to cross the Channel, and the RAF and RN were both undefeated.
Yes, but at that time the Luftwaffe and the Kriegsmarine were also undefeated. So the air battle would probably have ended in a standoff, and as for the sea, well yes I guess it would have been quite a fight between the u-boats and the destroyers...
Luftwaffe, while causing quite heavy casualties amongst the allies, failed to reach its stated objectives over Dunkirk (that the rest of the BEF could be destroyed by air power alone), and the RAF managed to get at least temporary air superiority in the area.
Well, so far, only one army has been destroyed by air power alone, and that was the retreating Iraqi army in 1991.
On the other hand, the Luftwaffe wasn't concentrated on Dunkirk in the way that it was during the Battle of Britain. Rather than attacking the cities and airfields, if it had provided air cover by attacking any destroyers, while subs take out larger ships, the Nazis might have been able to cross the channel . . . assuming they had the transports, which they didn't.
Christianity: The belief that a cosmic Jewish Zombie who was his own father can make you live forever if you symbolically eat his flesh and telepathically tell him you accept him as your master, so he can remove an evil force from your soul that is present in humanity because a rib-woman was convinced by a talking snake to eat from a magical tree...
Originally posted by chegitz guevara
. . . assuming they had the transports, which they didn't.
But couldn't they pop rush a few?
Modern man calls walking more quickly in the same direction down the same road “change.”
The world, in the last three hundred years, has not changed except in that sense.
The simple suggestion of a true change scandalizes and terrifies modern man. -Nicolás Gómez Dávila
Subs taking successfully on the bulk of the Royal Navy seems rather far-fetched to me. There were certain cases in WWII where subs downed major warships, but in general subs weren't meant to fight larger groups of surface warships and would have hardly be effectice in that role. As for air power attacking warships - that would meant less resources to take on the RAF which then could have provided air cover for its own ships just as it provided air cover over Dunkirk earlier.
The whole point of the battle of britain was that germany needed air superiority to enable it's ships not to be wiped out by the overwehlminly superior RN. Without air superioity they had no chance, even with it they get some toops ashore and then watch them get wiped out as their supplies dry up
Space is big. You just won't believe how vastly, hugely, mind- bogglingly big it is. I mean, you may think it's a long way down the road to the chemist's, but that's just peanuts to space.
Douglas Adams (Influential author)
I still think that with the right kind of decisions in 1940, Germany could have outproduced Britain with regards to aircraft.
Modern man calls walking more quickly in the same direction down the same road “change.”
The world, in the last three hundred years, has not changed except in that sense.
The simple suggestion of a true change scandalizes and terrifies modern man. -Nicolás Gómez Dávila
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