Don't Study Shakespeare The Anti-Semite...

[Asher]

Originally posted by GePap
as for your sad general point, that knowledge and words are here only to serve toil, and not to uplift, thank god people with your mindset are quickly forgotten and ignored in terms of history.

And Thank God some of us are capable of arguments that are not strawmen. It's all you ever do.

That in an of itself is more than sufficient proof that your point is wrong.

So Shakespeare is not entertainment? Okay, that's your opinion.

(This may shock you, so brace yourself. Entertainment can be influencial. See the "I'm Rick James, *****" meme... )

[GePap]

Originally posted by Asher

And Thank God some of us are capable of arguments that are not strawmen. It's all you ever do.

You mean like butchering someones words? Yeah. Great "argument" there.

So Shakespeare is not entertainment? Okay, that's your opinion.

(This may shock you, so brace yourself. Entertainment can be influencial. See the "I'm Rick James, *****" meme... )

Are you that much of a phillistine?

Shakespeare can be entertaining to some (not me), but his work is famous not because it is "entertainment", any more than Cervantes or Homer, but because his work helps people come to grips with the human condition.Yes, there is such a thing, which is why we have the concept of the Humanities. And yes, I know the disdain you show to all knowledge that is not quantifiable in nature. It is one of your biggest faults by far.

[Asher]

Originally posted by GePap
You mean like butchering someones words? Yeah. Great "argument" there.

It was a "QTF" comment for humourous effect. I think we know why it went over your head.

Shakespeare can be entertaining to some (not me), but his work is famous not because it is "entertainment", any more than Cervantes or Homer, but because his work helps people come to grips with the human condition.Yes, there is such a thing, which is why we have the concept of the Humanities. And yes, I know the disdain you show to all knowledge that is not quantifiable in nature. It is one of your biggest faults by far.

Entertainment/art may be important to some people -- particularly people who have nothing else -- but it's just a nice extra. It is not to be put on the same level of importance of literacy and mathematics, and it is not.

Sorry, bud, but reality is a-knockin'.

PS: The word is philistine.

[GePap]

Originally posted by Asher
Entertainment/art may be important to some people -- particularly people who have nothing else -- but it's just a nice extra. It is not to be put on the same level of importance of literacy and mathematics, and it is not.

Sorry, bud, but reality is a-knockin'.

PS: The word is philistine.

How old is writing? 5500 years old? And the invention of mathematics? 5000 years?

How long ago was mankind making art? Well, if you count cave paintings as art, 25,000 years minimum. And in fact, most peoples in the world did no independently invest writing, or systems of mathematics, but they all have art.

The fact is that making art is fundamental to being human, a concept that sometimes seemingly escapes you.

Literacy and math literacy are both critical and highly powerful tools that have allowed people to manipualte their physical wold in incredibly useful ways.

Yet, one can be a happy and fulfilled human being being unable to either write or do even basic arithmatic. In fact, the vast majority of human beings lived that way. That can't be said for a lack of art.

[Asher]

Originally posted by GePap


How old is writing? 5500 years old? And the invention of mathematics? 5000 years?

How long ago was mankind making art? Well, if you count cave paintings as art, 25,000 years minimum.

Wow

Yet, one can be a happy and fulfilled human being being unable to either write or do even basic arithmatic.

While it is very clear you are not a fan of literacy, I dare say your concept of the importance of art is grossly overstated. Did they draw pictures for art, or did they draw pictures to document? How do you know?

If they did draw for art because they didn't know anything else, what the hell does that have to do today?

Here, take an experiment. We have a boy called GePop. He can't write. He can't do math.

What does he do in our society? At best, he becomes a paper pusher for a municipal government.

If you had to teach your child 2 of 3 skills, which would it be: Literacy, Mathematics, Painting.

Take your pick. Literacy and mathematics are skills far more important and useful today (note: NOT 25,000 YEARS AGO).

I also think the statement that one needs art to be happy is astronomically stupid.

[Zoid]

Originally posted by Asher

It was a "QTF" comment for humourous effect. I think we know why it went over your head.

Don't try to be humourous, Asher. Stick to the arrogant douchbaggery and blatant misunderstandings for which you are known and loved...

[Asher]

Originally posted by Zoid


Don't try to be humourous, Asher. Stick to the arrogant douchbaggery and blatant misunderstandings for which you are known and loved...

If there is a misunderstanding here, it's anyone who says studying art in school is just as important to a well-functioning member of society as literacy and mathematics.

I quite like my humour and at least several others here do as well. The fact that it flies right over the head of so many learned, "cultured", "well-rounded" individuals sells more about how right I am than anything else.

[Wezil]

I enjoy your douchbaggery. It is a refreshing change from my RL where everyone is always so damn polite. Some day I hope to join you at your level but I'm just not there yet. I will improve.

[Zoid]

Originally posted by Asher


If there is a misunderstanding here, it's anyone who says studying art in school is just as important to a well-functioning member of society as literacy and mathematics.

Just because you don't have any love for the fine arts doesn't make it useless. The world needs both techies and thespians.

[Asher]

What a surprise, yet another person can't figure out what is being said.

Does no one here understand the concept of a spectrum or continuum? It's not useful/useless, it's about degrees. In terms of utility and use to society, mathematics and literacy are much more important than painters and actors.

That's not to say actors and painters have no use at all, it's just that they are less important to the functioning of society to than the ability for citizens to do math (eg, commerce, taxes...) or read (literacy in general).

They can improve the quality of life by providing entertainment and the like, but you can't honestly make the case that acting and math are of equal importance to a functional society.

[GePap]

Originally posted by Asher

While it is very clear you are not a fan of literacy, I dare say your concept of the importance of art is grossly overstated. Did they draw pictures for art, or did they draw pictures to document? How do you know?

Document what? The earliest writings are legers of goods, with no real relation to cave art, so I would say that trying to say that cave paintings represented some attempt to "document" is wrong.

If they did draw for art because they didn't know anything else, what the hell does that have to do today?

Well, your statements have been sorely lacking in conditional phrases, like "in modern times", "today", or "currently." They are all mostly absolutist statements about the value of art. So learn how to phrase your thoughts more effectively and precisely, if you want to claim your statements are only relevant to the here and now.

Here, take an experiment. We have a boy called GePop. He can't write. He can't do math.

What does he do in our society? At best, he becomes a paper pusher for a municipal government.

Wow, you are an ass. Also, obviously highly ignorant. And actually, if that kid new how to play music well, or was a good athlete, he would make plenty of money and be extremely famous, not some sad sack in some technical job, wasting away in the darkness and unable to carry out basic human contact....

If you had to teach your child 2 of 3 skills, which would it be: Literacy, Mathematics, Painting.

Take your pick. Literacy and mathematics are skills far more important and useful today (note: NOT 25,000 YEARS AGO).

Thankfully, we can teach any kid all those talents with plenty of time to spare.

I also think the statement that one needs art to be happy is astronomically stupid.

Really? Can you name me a single person you have personally known that is happy that has no interest in ANY form of art, including even a jackass like yourself?

[GePap]

Originally posted by Asher
They can improve the quality of life by providing entertainment and the like, but you can't honestly make the case that acting and math are of equal importance to a functional society.

The society you live in rewards good actors far more than good mathematicians.

[Zoid]

Originally posted by Asher

They can improve the quality of life by providing entertainment and the like, but you can't honestly make the case that acting and math are of equal importance to a functional society.

Yes I can. Art supplies the society with it's soul, while the maths are the brain. Without its soul society will be a barren wasteland of logic and mathematical predictability.

[Asher]

Originally posted by GePap
Document what? The earliest writings are legers of goods, with no real relation to cave art, so I would say that trying to say that cave paintings represented some attempt to "document" is wrong.

I don't think anyone can say for certain what the intention of cavedrawings were 25,000 years ago, just that they exist. So that makes you wrong.

Well, your statements have been sorely lacking in conditional phrases, like "in modern times", "today", or "currently."

Sorry, I thought you'd be bright enough to assume I'm talking about the present when using present-tense and not 25,000 years ago? This keys into why literacy is important.

Wow, you are an ass. Also, obviously highly ignorant. And actually, if that kid new how to play music well, or was a good athlete, he would make plenty of money and be extremely famous, not some sad sack in some technical job, wasting away in the darkness and unable to carry out basic human contact....

How many musicians and athletes do you know that can't do 5+5 and can't read?

Conversely, how many engineers do you know that can't sing or paint?

Really? Can you name me a single person you have personally known that is happy that has no interest in ANY form of art, including even a jackass like yourself?

What does this have to do with anything? I didn't assert no one has interest in art. I didn't assert art has no use.

Why do you insult me by making such stupid arguments consistently?

[Asher]

Originally posted by GePap
The society you live in rewards good actors far more than good mathematicians.

Oh?

Tell me, how rich are the Google boys vs, say, Daniel Day-Lewis?

Do you think at all before you post?

Let's play another thinking game. What do you think the sum total is of the income of people with science/math-based educations vs that of art? And don't ***** that this is "unfair", this is the value system you just used to try to make a point disastrously.