A Thought Experiment About the Viability of Communism

[David Floyd]

Right, you can't just take the West out of the equation and assume everything else would be equal. Russia/Soviet Union would not have been all that advanced without the West, in my opinion, and communism rose when it did because of the perceived evils of capitalism in the West.

Both the rise and fall of communism in Russia (and I'd argue anywhere in the world) was inevitable.

[Kontiki]

It's hard to imagine the SU being as advanced as it was without successful capitalist competitors.

[Kidlicious]

Re: A Thought Experiment About the Viability of Communism

Originally posted by VetLegion
Soviet Union fell apart in a sequence of events in which falling oil prices, food shortage and reluctance of the leadership to use force all played a role.

It wasn't all of those things as much as it was a Peak Oil situation within the system.

It is today thought that this breakup is the definitive proof of unsustainibility of communist economies in the long run.

But is it? Would SU have been replaced by a capitalist economy if examples of successful capitalist economies weren't around?

I don't think switching to a capitalist economy had much to do with examples of successfull capitalist economies in the world. The communist economy was an oligopoly, and at that point at capitalist economy better served the oligarchy. But it's not like the capitalist economy did any better.

What if Europe and the US (+Canada) had been depopulated because of some plague and in 1990 the only alternatives to hardcore communism of the SU were softcore communism of Latin America, Chinese state capitalism, Arab monarchies and a bunch of nominally capitalist failed states in Africa and Asia?

If we take the West out of the equation Russia was more advanced than any other country in the world.

In such hypothetical situation would crises-induced reforms take the SU towards capitalism or not?

Utlimately, did SU fall apart because its economy couldn't weather the last crisis and resume growth or because the political class lost faith in the system because there actually existed a better alternative?

There my have been a switch to capitalism anyway because of the crisis, because as stated, that served the political class better.

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Kontiki
It's hard to imagine the SU being as advanced as it was without successful capitalist competitors.

Probably not as advanced, but it definitely would have been a better place to live.

[Ogie Oglethorpe]

Originally posted by Oncle Boris


If you don't see the difference between Marx' writings and the actual Soviet regime, you're hopeless.

If you don't see the inevitable devolution of marxist pablum to soviet style communism/cult of personality....

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Ogie Oglethorpe


If you don't see the inevitable devolution of marxist pablum to soviet style communism/cult of personality....

Why? Do you know the actual history?

[chequita guevara]

Imagine you're a contestant on Iron Chef. You have a radical new and improved way to cook a meal, but you can't afford a whole staff. Morimoto has a whole kitchen staff. Now, if you method works, Morimoto's out of a job, so he sends some of his staff over to mess up your kitchen. He also bribes some of your staff to screw things up and he tells the rest of your staff he's going to pay them more if they come over to work for him.

Does your failure mean your method was wrong or incapable of working?

[Ogie Oglethorpe]

Very well thank you. Matter of fact am hard pressed to think of a solitary real world example where cult of personality didn't emerge and ultimately dominate in a communistic national system. Given the precedent its very hard not to expect the same. Sun rises every morning and all that jazz.

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by Ogie Oglethorpe


If you don't see the inevitable devolution of marxist pablum to soviet style communism/cult of personality....

The first generation of leaders after a revolution are often revered. Think about Washington.

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Ogie Oglethorpe
Very well thank you. Matter of fact am hard pressed to think of a solitary real world example where cult of personality didn't emerge and ultimately dominate in a communistic national system. Given the precedent its very hard not to expect the same. Sun rises every morning and all that jazz.

Cuba is one example. More is made of Castro by others than is made of him actually by the Cuban government. The Cuban government does not encourage hero worship of Fidel even though he most definitely is a hero.

[Ogie Oglethorpe]

President for essentially life... right. No cult of personality there.

[chequita guevara]

Kinda like George Washington.

[Ogie Oglethorpe]

Originally posted by chegitz guevara


The first generation of leaders after a revolution are often revered. Think about Washington.

Rightly so because he did the one thing none of the (communistic) others would. Limitted his own power and set precedent of others in the US to do the same. Unlike communism where in it is expected that governemental reach is ominpresent.

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Ogie Oglethorpe
President for essentially life... right. No cult of personality there.

If you don't mind me saying so, your posts don't have much substance.

A cult of personality or personality cult arises when a country's leader uses mass media to create a heroic public image through unquestioning flattery and praise.

[Ogie Oglethorpe]

Originally posted by chegitz guevara
Kinda like George Washington.

2 terms <> life.