The state of American prison systems.

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by MosesPresley


I suppose allegedly, that's a witticism.

Anyway...

Stop jailing people for actions that are not really crimes, but are actually health issues, such as drugs. That's one thing we can do about it.

That's not going to fix any problems. Jail is the only way these people are held accountable for their actions. Lord knows their families and schools don't hold them accountable. What we need to do is find away to hold them accountable before the piss their lives away.

[MrFun]

Originally posted by chegitz guevara
Land of the home, free of the brave.

[LordShiva]

Originally posted by Deity Dude
STAT A:

Four states - Vermont, Michigan, Oregon and Connecticut - now spend more on corrections than they do on higher education, the report said.

Blue states

[Arrian]

STAT A:

Four states - Vermont, Michigan, Oregon and Connecticut - now spend more on corrections than they do on higher education, the report said.

I heard that on the radio this morning. Ouch.

-Arrian

[Arrian]

What we need to do is find away to hold them accountable before the piss their lives away.

I relish the opportunity to agree with Kid.

Of course, I'm not entirely sure how to do it as a matter of policy. It seems more of a parenting issue, and the gummint isn't a parent.

Cue Ozzy...

-Arrian

[Wezil]

Re: The state of American prison systems.

Originally posted by MrFun
You guys whine like babies with wet diapers when I only link the relevant article rather than cut and paste, so there ya go.

Even though I heard about this elsewhere I read it anyway.

You should still include the link though so people don't think you selectively edited...

[Wezil]

Originally posted by Arrian

Cue Ozzy...

-Arrian

I'll sub - on a related issue (not the kids).

Why is it your concern what someone does with their life? If they want to piss it away shouldn't that be their call?

[Blake]

As hard as it may be to believe, people do not actually want to piss their life away. That just ends up happening as they get caught up in things.

A lack of good guidance can certainly do it. People are VERY good at learning (from what other people do), but they can learn both good lessons and bad lessons and are not born with the ability to tell the difference.

Something most people are never taught, is how to distinguish between the good lessons and bad lessons. This could be called wisdom or even common sense, and it is terminally lacking in certain countries.

Roughly speaking, the way to improve your life, is to learn the good lessons. The way to improve other peoples lives, is to only teach the good lessons (ie act morally!) and to teach others how to distinguish for themselves (difficult!).

At a social level things are much murkier, generally, particularly with the western mentality, it has been decided that wisdom is "too hard", and that the "bad lessons" should just be outlawed, anyone who teaches them should be punished for teaching them. But the sad thing is, they only learned to do that from others, it's not really their fault - they haven't learned how to do otherwise!!!

It is criminal to put more emphasis on treating the symptoms than prevention, particularly when the symptoms and treatment both involve so much suffering.

[Lord Avalon]

We're #1! Wooo! [/Stephen Colbert]

[Wezil]

Originally posted by Blake
As hard as it may be to believe, people do not actually want to piss their life away. That just ends up happening as they get caught up in things...

Yes, I am sure this is your vision of the world and that you must do your best to direct people to what you think is best. But quite frankly putting people in jail for not living they way you/I/we think they should is just wrong.

[Thoth]

Originally posted by Wezil

But quite frankly putting people in jail for not living they way you/I/we think they should is just wrong.

It is also ineffective. If prohibition actually worked, no one would have drug problems. Making drugs illegal simply drives them underground at puts their distribution in the hands of organized crime. Legalize the drugs and the profits for criminal gangs disappear.


People who abuse drugs don't do it because they're "bad". They do it because they're trying to escape from the pain (mental or physical) or hopelessness in their lives. Criminalising illness is cruel and counter productive. Someone who has a drug problem is a lot less likely to seek help if they fear punishment than if they know they can get help without retribution.

Putting people in jail for drug abuse makes about as much sense as putting people in jail for having an ear infection.

[Riesstiu IV]

Originally posted by Lord Avalon
We're #1! Wooo! [/Stephen Colbert]

Biggest pizzas, biggest burgers, biggest prisons. Makes me proud.

[David Floyd]

Well, obviously we need to incarcerate criminals. That said, the incarceration rate would fall drastically if we took the very simple step of decriminalizing marijuana. If we followed that up be decriminalizing simple possession/use of EVERY drug, the rate would fall even further. The War on Drugs is certainly a major factor - yes, people who use or deal drugs are committing crimes, but for many of them, that is their only crime, which doesn't seem very criminal to me.

As to the fact that far more blacks are in prison than whites, I think that clearly has to do with economics and education. There is a major income and education disparity per capita between whites and blacks. Now, that doesn't mean we should give black people a get out of jail free card because they are underpriviliged - commit a crime, go to jail, and commit a violent crime, and go to jail, preferably, for most of your life.

However, clearly we need to do something to address the underlying problem, which is the point Blake is making. What, then, should we do?

Clearly, the federal War on Poverty and the federal Department of Education simply don't work. Throwing billions of dollars at issues like these are not solutions - all handouts do is perpetuate poverty. I don't know a specific solution, but I think a good starting guideline to follow is to understand that federal handouts simply will not solve the problem, especially when those federal handouts have few or no conditions attached to them. If we couple that with incentives to pursue higher education - maybe allowing full tax write offs for college tuition, for example - then we should see an increase in the average wealth of not only blacks, but poor people in general.

Ultimately, though, it isn't society's responsibility to prevent crime by ensuring everyone is rich and educated, it is the individual's responsibility NOT TO COMMIT CRIMES! I think it is certainly in the interest of the nation to take rational steps to discourage crime - outside of heavy punishment, 3 strikes rules, etc. - as long as those steps are truly rational, and not left-wing knee jerk reactions (oh, those poor people, I know, let's tax the rich and give their money to the poor) that have no resemblance to a solution that will actually work.

[Wezil]

Originally posted by David Floyd
However, clearly we need to do something to address the underlying problem, which is the point Blake is making.

I get the impression Blake would like to micromanage as well.

[David Floyd]

Yeah. Federal micromanagement has in many ways created the problem, and has certainly perpetuated it.