Iran's nuclear weapons program was never halted says IAEA.

[Sirotnikov]

QFT spencerH


at the other numbskulls.

[Ramo]

So maybe he's not quite so "on the out" as some have suggested.

Bush heartily congratulated Pelosi on the stimulus package recently. That must mean they're best buds...

[Arrian]

Originally posted by SlowwHand
Just bomb hell out of them and be done with it. One or a million, whichever way.

Always a good solution.

-Arrian

[Sirotnikov]

Originally posted by chegitz guevara
Maybe you might want to base your opinion on how Iran actually works, as opposed to assumptions.

i wouldn't pride in better knowing how Iran actually works, if i was in your position.

If the President of Iran does anything the Supreme Leader doesn't want or like he doesn't remain President. Anything he wants to do, he has to get approval from the Supreme Leader. Khamenei, not Ahmadinejad, makes policy.

your communist mind makes you compare any and every autocratic regime to Stalin's soviet russia.

There are many policy making bodies within Iran, and they have political battles which they fight, including in the popular elections (even though there is not an honest playing field).

[Sirotnikov]

Originally posted by Ramo
Bush heartily congratulated Pelosi on the stimulus package recently. That must mean they're best buds...

straw man

no one was claiming that ahmedinjad is best buds with khamnehi.

we were discussing whether he is a figurehead or not, and does he play a role in foreign / security policy.

i guess che will say that nansy pelosi is like the queen of england now...

[Ramo]

He's an emasculated figure in the Iranian political system. For instance, Khamenei recently backed Parliament over him in an economic dispute. That doesn't mean that he's powerless, just on the outs, and he's going to be permanently out in a year or so...

[GePap]

Originally posted by SpencerH
The current government of Iran is an interesting throwback to much earlier moslem governments where the Imam's and religious leaders held the power. It should be noted, however, that for the vast majority of the history of the moslem middle-east that the Amirs and Sultans, as leaders of the state, held power. Whether it's Afterdinnerjacket or some other nutjob in that position, it's inevitable that the power will shift from the Supreme Leader to the President.

Iran's government is nothing like past Muslim governments. The mere existance and importance of popular elections makes this statement moot.

What sets the Iranian regime apart from other Mulsim regimes like KSA (which is a fine example of an old fashioned Muslim regime) is the very fact that the Iman's are the ones who hold the most important reigns of temporal power.

[SpencerH]

Originally posted by GePap


Iran's government is nothing like past Muslim governments. The mere existance and importance of popular elections makes this statement moot.

What sets the Iranian regime apart from other Mulsim regimes like KSA (which is a fine example of an old fashioned Muslim regime) is the very fact that the Iman's are the ones who hold the most important reigns of temporal power.

I suggest you read Prof Bernard Lewis "The Middle East". It might stop you talking out of your ass. In Iran we see a movement back to the democratic themes in the Qur'an that were in practice during the early Caliphates. Thats the "throwback" I was refering to.

The Imams have held relatively little power since the end of the Abbasid and Fatamid Caliphates. The KSA is similar to the Moslem empires that existed after the decline of the Caliphs power (with the advent of the Seljuks).

[Sirotnikov]

Originally posted by GePap
Iran's government is nothing like past Muslim governments. The mere existance and importance of popular elections makes this statement moot.

What sets the Iranian regime apart from other Mulsim regimes like KSA (which is a fine example of an old fashioned Muslim regime) is the very fact that the Iman's are the ones who hold the most important reigns of temporal power.

first you say that his point is moot

then you repeat it using your own words.

smart stuff

[GePap]

Originally posted by SpencerH


I suggest you read Prof Bernard Lewis "The Middle East". It might stop you talking out of your ass. In Iran we see a movement back to the democratic themes in the Qur'an that were in practice during the early Caliphates. Thats the "throwback" I was refering to.

The Iranian revolution was a thoroughly modern one. Calling the Iranian regime a "throwback" is like saying that the United States was a "throwback" to Classical government after centuries of Christianity ruled by Monarchs.

[Sirotnikov]

Originally posted by GePap
The Iranian revolution was a thoroughly modern one. Calling the Iranian regime a "throwback" is like saying that the United States was a "throwback" to Classical government after centuries of Christianity ruled by Monarchs.

yes, clearly wilayat el faqih is a modern concept, as opposed toa throwback.

[GePap]

Originally posted by Sirotnikov

yes, clearly wilayat el faqih is a modern concept, as opposed to a throwback.

And the concept of 'democracy' is older than Christianity, so what?

Oh, and by the way, care to explin why when Khatami was President, the office was a just a meaningless powerless post, yet when Ahmedinejad is elected into power, now he runs things? Cause you have as of yet utterly failed to explain that shift in rhetoric.

[Sirotnikov]

Originally posted by GePap


And the concept of 'democracy' is older than Christianity, so what?

Do you even know the history of wilayat al faqih?

And modern democracy is very different form greek democracy because of such stuff such as women's suffrage, equal rights to all citizens, weights and balances, administrative responsability and so on.

Oh, and by the way, care to explin why when Khatami was President, the office was a just a meaningless powerless post

I would never try to explain that as I was never making such a claim.

[GePap]

Originally posted by Sirotnikov

Do you even know the history of wilayat al faqih?

And modern democracy is very different form greek democracy because of such stuff such as women's suffrage, equal rights to all citizens, weights and balances, administrative responsability and so on.

And that idea of popular soverignty and of individual human rights makes the Iranian regime different from anything in the past. Why? Because in the structure of the government, the people vote for those Islamic Jurists who will be given Guardianship. At least in theory, even the Supreme Leader is beholden to the people, because they chose the Council of Experts, and the experts chose or keep the Supreme Leader.

So just as Modern democracy is different from classical democracy, the Iranian regime today is a modern one.

I would never try to explain that as I was never making such a claim.

I did not say you said this specifically, but your intellectual allies in the subject did.

[Sirotnikov]

I did not say you said this specifically, but your intellectual allies in the subject did.

not in this thread.

also i don't feel the need to defend my intellectual allies.

i try to base my words on things i know, and i often have access to better information than many of my intellectual allies, or foes.