I am at a loss for words

[Riesstiu IV]

Originally posted by Kidicious
When did aneeshm get any training in teaching kids math?

Since he became High Priest of the Hindoos.

[Lancer]

Our kids may not know math but they know what Pam was wearing in the red carpet, what Paris did in Monaco last night and the mix of pills Britney uses to make it all ok again.



You have to have priorities!

[Kidlicious]

Shhhh...

Don't tell the Hindoos that they are worse at social studies.

[Rufus T. Firefly]

Well, I'm going to rally to the defense of our horrid math skills.

Certainly the US doesn't have any problem producing students with superb math skills. MIT, Cal Tech, and CMU (take a bow, Kuci!) are our schools, remember? American engineering and scientific innovation still set the standard worldwide. Clearly, we're doing something right.

Part of what we're doing right, in fact, is teaching kids to be flexible in their thinking, and to think for themselves, rather than just engaging in rote learning (the norm for most of the rest of the world, especially India and the rest of Asia). It's no surprise that very little innovation (as opposed to excellent adaptation) comes out of Asia; Asian education produces group-think-bound followers, not innovative leaders.

Now, surely, this tendency can be taken too far; I'm still appalled that my daughter was never compelled to memorize her multiplication tables in the third grade, and am convinced she has suffered from it. But, in the end, she was never going to be a math person; her parents are word people (though I was a strong, if utterly bored, math student in my day), and she'll certainly get by with the everyday math she has. And that's the point; techniques like those in the video are designed to try to give everyone, no matter how math-phobic, some access to math; it's certainly preferable to the alternative, which is boring, alienating, and failing students (even more than education already does).

And, for the record, I think of 36*21 as (36*20)+36. I get the correct answer in my head quickly -- which, once you're out of school, is all that counts.

[Xorbon]

Calculators should be banned from schools until calculus and geometry where you need to do calculations involving sine and cosine, logarithms, and irrational numbers. Until then, kids should be forced to use paper and pencil (and their heads) to solve mathematical problems.

If you introduce calculators too early to children, they become far too dependent on them.

[DaShi]

Why? They can just use Indians.

[Xorbon]

Are Indians cheaper than calculators?

[aneeshm]

Re: Re: Re: Re: I am at a loss for words

Originally posted by VetLegion


Are you studying at the IIT?

No, I got into my college through my score on the AIEEE.

[aneeshm]

Originally posted by Rufus T. Firefly
Well, I'm going to rally to the defense of our horrid math skills.

Certainly the US doesn't have any problem producing students with superb math skills. MIT, Cal Tech, and CMU (take a bow, Kuci!) are our schools, remember? American engineering and scientific innovation still set the standard worldwide. Clearly, we're doing something right.

Part of what we're doing right, in fact, is teaching kids to be flexible in their thinking, and to think for themselves, rather than just engaging in rote learning (the norm for most of the rest of the world, especially India and the rest of Asia). It's no surprise that very little innovation (as opposed to excellent adaptation) comes out of Asia; Asian education produces group-think-bound followers, not innovative leaders.

Now, surely, this tendency can be taken too far; I'm still appalled that my daughter was never compelled to memorize her multiplication tables in the third grade, and am convinced she has suffered from it. But, in the end, she was never going to be a math person; her parents are word people (though I was a strong, if utterly bored, math student in my day), and she'll certainly get by with the everyday math she has. And that's the point; techniques like those in the video are designed to try to give everyone, no matter how math-phobic, some access to math; it's certainly preferable to the alternative, which is boring, alienating, and failing students (even more than education already does).

And, for the record, I think of 36*21 as (36*20)+36. I get the correct answer in my head quickly -- which, once you're out of school, is all that counts.

It appears that my statements were misconstrued as some sort of "attack" on the USA's system of mathematical education.

Well, they were nothing of the sort.

When I said, "in the USA?", it was meant as an ejaculation of surprise - because I consider education in the USA to be good, even though I have heard of declines in quality in recent decades. It's the same surprise you feel at an intelligent guy doing a dumb thing.

[Apocalypse]

I have you all beat. I didn't even get access to slide rulers until I was out of college.

[Omni Rex Draconis]

The calculator is just a tool, as are the algorithms. Learn math first, then whatever tools are appropriate for your children. Anyone ever used a table of sines?

For those who have no need of a calculator, check out these abacus wiz kids.



Check out the invisible abacus at 1:20!

For even freakier math skills, check out this series on Daniel Tammet - The Boy With The Incredible Brain

[Rufus T. Firefly]

Originally posted by Xorbon
Calculators should be banned from schools until calculus and geometry where you need to do calculations involving sine and cosine, logarithms, and irrational numbers. Until then, kids should be forced to use paper and pencil (and their heads) to solve mathematical problems.

If you introduce calculators too early to children, they become far too dependent on them.

I'm curious -- would you make the same argument for a word-processing program? I actually don't know of any schoolchildren, at any age, who are still required to write out their homework by hand; my daughter was required to type on her work on a computer starting in the 6th grade. Arguably, students' mastery of penmanship, grammar, and spelling all suffer from having the word-processing crutch to lean on. Yet, while I see this argument about calculators all the time, nobody seems riled up about word processing.

[Theben]

Apples and oranges. Either way they are only writing the paper, and still have to figure out what to write. The calc does their work for them, so there's no understanding of why a*b=c. I never used a calculator in school, although back then (80s) some kids were using them.

I use the TURK method in my head as some others here have posted. It's not so bad. The thing I hated was explaining how I got my answers. I just did it, dammit! What's to explain!?

[Kuciwalker]

You should only be forbidden a computer aid up until you've demonstrated the ability to do what the aid does. As soon as you can do that, you should be allowed to use one as much as you want.

For instance, I would never hesistate to do an integral using a CAS, because I know how to algorithmically do that integral anyway - so there's no point in me actually working through the steps.

[Soltz]

I'm a fossil who learned by the old algorithm method but I can see the reasoning behind the cluster method and that it could be helpful for many people.

The part that I don't understand is why are they trying to teach geography in a math textbook. Our Canadian system is similar. I looked at my son's math book and much of it looked like it belonged in a social studies class!