Time's up for petrol cars, says GM chief

[Dinner]

Time's up for petrol cars, says GM chief

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Joshua Dowling, Motoring Editor in Detroit
January 15, 2008
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THE world's biggest car maker, General Motors, believes global oil supply has peaked and a switch to electric cars is inevitable.

In a stunning announcement at the opening of the Detroit motor show, Rick Wagoner, GM's chairman and chief executive, also said ethanol was an "important interim solution" to the world's demand for oil, until battery technology improved to give electric cars the same driving range as petrol-powered cars.

GM is working on an electric car, called the Volt, which is due in showrooms in 2010, but delays in suitable battery technology have slowed the project.

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Drive special: Detroit Motor Show

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Mr Wagoner cited US Department of Energy figures which show the world is consuming roughly 1000 barrels of oil every second of the day, and yet demand for oil is likely to increase by 70 per cent over the next 20 years. Some experts believe the supply of oil peaked in 2006.

The remaining oil reserves are deeper below the Earth's surface and therefore more costly to mine and refine.

"There is no doubt demand for oil is outpacing supply at a rapid pace, and has been for some time now," Mr Wagoner said. "As a business necessity and an obligation to society we need to develop alternative sources of propulsion."

He added: "So, are electrically driven vehicles the answer for the mid- and long-term? Yes, for sure. But … we need something else to significantly reduce our reliance on petroleum in the interim."

GM is so convinced about ethanol it has signed an agreement with a supplier that claims to have come up with a way of producing ethanol that is cheaper and more efficient than refining oil. The supplier claims it can produce ethanol from "almost any material" such as farm waste, municipal waste, discarded plastics - even old tyres.

The car industry has had a love-hate relationship with ethanol, which is most commonly derived from crops such as corn, wheat and sugar cane. At first, car makers criticised ethanol-blended fuel because most vehicles weren't compatible with it. Then car makers changed their tune and embraced ethanol-blended fuel after retuning engines to suit the new mix.

http://www.smh.com.au/news/environment/times-up-for-petrol-cars-says-gm-chief/2008/01/14/1200159363527.html

I don't believe the peak oil horse **** since proven reserves are currently higher then ever plus it is very straight forward to convert coal into oil or gas via thermal cracking. It is interesting that GM's CEO thinks the long term solution to our transportation needs are electric cars though. Granted, GM is trying to hype the Chevy Spark (their new electric car) and GM is facing criticism for coming up with the hybrid concept but dumping it due to incompetent management but it's still a refreshing change of heart.

[Kidlicious]

Re: Time's up for petrol cars, says GM chief

Originally posted by Oerdin
I don't believe the peak oil horse **** since proven reserves are currently higher then ever

What are you saying, that that means there is more supply of cheap oil? If there were more cheap oil why would they keep more in reserve?

plus it is very straight forward to convert coal into oil or gas via thermal cracking.

Is that cheap?

Anyway, this corporate guy is really ahead of the game.

[Dinner]

Depends on your definition of cheap. One thing is certain though and that is the chicken littles screaming the sky is falling and that humanity is hurtling towards an apocalyptic dystopia are idiots. We will not be going back to the post industrial age simply because oil hits $100, $200, or even $300 a barrel in the next half century. To many alternatives are out there so the people dreaming of returning to an idealized pre-industrial period are out of luck.

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Oerdin
Depends on your definition of cheap.

Just tell us how much it costs. I feel like I'm talking to a salesman.

One thing is certain though and that is the chicken littles screaming the sky is falling and that humanity is hurtling towards an apocalyptic dystopia are idiots. We will not be going back to the post industrial age simply because oil hits $100, $200, or even $300 a barrel in the next half century. To many alternatives are out there so the people dreaming of returning to an idealized pre-industrial period are out of luck.

Everyone knows there are alternatives. That doesn't really mean anything.

[Dinner]

I'd say if gasoline costs less then bottled water when tap water is virtually free then it is cheap. Given that bottled water sells for around $8 per gallon and at $90 a barrel gas is selling for $3.20 per gallon we could double the price of oil and still pay less then bottled water.

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Oerdin
I'd say if gasoline costs less then bottled water when tap water is virtually free then it is cheap. Given that bottled water sells for around $8 per gallon and at $90 a barrel gas is selling for $3.20 per gallon we could double the price of oil and still pay less then bottled water.

That's ridiculous. The price of bottled water has no bearing on the economy.

I suppose you don't think the recent spike in gas prices has anything to do with the economy right now?

[Dinner]

Comparing the price of goods relative to each other has everything to do with the economy.

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Oerdin
Comparing the price of goods relative to each other has everything to do with the economy.

Why? If the price of bottled water increases people just won't buy it. Indeed, you picked the worst possible good as an example. Besides I have no idea what your point is anyway.

Anyway, so you didn't answer my question. Do you think the recent spike in gas prices has any bearing on the current economy?

[Spec]

Time's up for GM cars, says Spec

Its all bull****. Trying to change peoples opinion about thirsty american cars. Like Fords advert, 83% of the car is recyclable.... Just like any other car, Sherlock.

GM sucks, and it'll go bankrupt in the next 20 years.

[Proteus_MST]

Germany made attempts in turning coal into oil during the 1970s/80s (result of the stop in Oil deliveries by the OPEC-countries in the 70s to increase the oil prices).

But because of the high costs of the resulting fuel the research plants were never commercially used (and AFAIK finally shut down)
The costs of the fuel produced from coal would have been double the costs of fuel produced from oil.

[Elok]

I stopped reading when he said ethanol was an important interim solution. It'd be nice to get away from oil just to stop having to be nice to Saudi Arabia, though. Also it'd really screw over Chavez, so I say go for it.

[Dinner]

Originally posted by Proteus_MST
Germany made attempts in turning coal into oil during the 1970s/80s (result of the stop in Oil deliveries by the OPEC-countries in the 70s to increase the oil prices).

But because of the high costs of the resulting fuel the research plants were never commercially used (and AFAIK finally shut down)
The costs of the fuel produced from coal would have been double the costs of fuel produced from oil.

Germany and Japan also made oil out of coal 1940-1945 while South Africa did during the 1980's when they were embargoed. The good news is the process has been greatly refined since then so that it is a lot more efficient then it was in the 1940's. If oil stays above $100 then it likely will be profitable though no one will invest hundreds of millions unless they have a really good feeling about oil staying that high for an extended period of time.

[Kidlicious]

Did you get that info from the coal industry?

[PLATO]

Here is the latest pizza powered car from GM. Please note the exposure suit that has to be worn while fueling the vehicle. GM expects to announce that the new H3 will be fueld by a 48" pizza and will require less shielding.

[Kidlicious]