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Science buff- Like Barack Obama? Better not like manned spaceflight then

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  • #31
    Ironic isn’t it, that a communist central plan approach won the space race for the capitalists, while the communists had groups competing for funding a very different approach compared to their other major projects?

    Oh, you’re communist when it comes to defense too.



    I personaly think a mixed economy approach (somehting like Dirigisme) would be best for space flight.
    Modern man calls walking more quickly in the same direction down the same road “change.”
    The world, in the last three hundred years, has not changed except in that sense.
    The simple suggestion of a true change scandalizes and terrifies modern man. -Nicolás Gómez Dávila

    Comment

    • #32
      I'm sad to report that the US hasn't been capitalist for about 80 years now.
      I came upon a barroom full of bad Salon pictures in which men with hats on the backs of their heads were wolfing food from a counter. It was the institution of the "free lunch" I had struck. You paid for a drink and got as much as you wanted to eat. For something less than a rupee a day a man can feed himself sumptuously in San Francisco, even though he be a bankrupt. Remember this if ever you are stranded in these parts. ~ Rudyard Kipling, 1891

      Comment

      • #33
        Well yes, the US has a mixed economy, but so does every other every other developed country.

        But on topic I think NASA should be reformed ESA style:

        NASA's and ESA's administration structure is different: After the space race activities of the 1960s and early 1970s, NASA has maintained a large administration and bureaucracy that still burdens both current projects and NASA budgets. ESA was never involved in large-scale political activity such as the space race, so it has always had a small and efficient structure and agency level comparable to a private company, as only about 1900 people are directly employed by ESA and many projects are allocated over different organisations in several European countries, with ESA coordinating these projects but not directly employing the people involved in the project (decentralised structure).
        Last edited by Heraclitus; January 9, 2008, 12:55.
        Modern man calls walking more quickly in the same direction down the same road “change.”
        The world, in the last three hundred years, has not changed except in that sense.
        The simple suggestion of a true change scandalizes and terrifies modern man. -Nicolás Gómez Dávila

        Comment

        • #34
          Off topic: I'm sure some pinko will come along and explain that the USSR wasn't communist either.
          Modern man calls walking more quickly in the same direction down the same road “change.”
          The world, in the last three hundred years, has not changed except in that sense.
          The simple suggestion of a true change scandalizes and terrifies modern man. -Nicolás Gómez Dávila

          Comment

          • #35
            Originally posted by Heraclitus
            But on topic I think NASA should be reformed ESA style:
            ESA sucks too. That "more like a private company" rhetoric is ridiculous. There is no reason for NASA to become like ESA.
            Last edited by DanS; January 9, 2008, 13:12.
            I came upon a barroom full of bad Salon pictures in which men with hats on the backs of their heads were wolfing food from a counter. It was the institution of the "free lunch" I had struck. You paid for a drink and got as much as you wanted to eat. For something less than a rupee a day a man can feed himself sumptuously in San Francisco, even though he be a bankrupt. Remember this if ever you are stranded in these parts. ~ Rudyard Kipling, 1891

            Comment

            • #36
              Originally posted by Heraclitus
              Ironic isn’t it, that a communist central plan approach won the space race for the capitalists, while the communists had groups competing for funding a very different approach compared to their other major projects?
              Teh Soviets were first in space. Then teh Americans outspent them, and had access to techmologies developed thanks to capitalism.
              THEY!!111 OMG WTF LOL LET DA NOMADS AND TEH S3D3NTARY PEOPLA BOTH MAEK BITER AXP3REINCES
              AND TEH GRAAT SINS OF THERE [DOCTRINAL] INOVATIONS BQU3ATH3D SMAL
              AND!!1!11!!! LOL JUST IN CAES A DISPUTANT CALS U 2 DISPUT3 ABOUT THEYRE CLAMES
              DO NOT THAN DISPUT3 ON THEM 3XCAPT BY WAY OF AN 3XTARNAL DISPUTA!!!!11!! WTF

              Comment

              • #37
                Originally posted by DanS


                ESA sucks too. That "more like a private company" rhetoric is ridiculous. There is no reason for NASA to become like ESA.
                You do have to admit that in unmanned spaceflight, ESA is able to do more with less, unlike NASA probes.
                Modern man calls walking more quickly in the same direction down the same road “change.”
                The world, in the last three hundred years, has not changed except in that sense.
                The simple suggestion of a true change scandalizes and terrifies modern man. -Nicolás Gómez Dávila

                Comment

                • #38
                  Originally posted by LordShiva


                  Teh Soviets were first in space. Then teh Americans outspent them, and had access to techmologies developed thanks to capitalism.
                  Well, duh.


                  Edit: Note: Becuse of capitalism they had the funds to develop the tech, the tech wasn't devloped by the market.
                  Modern man calls walking more quickly in the same direction down the same road “change.”
                  The world, in the last three hundred years, has not changed except in that sense.
                  The simple suggestion of a true change scandalizes and terrifies modern man. -Nicolás Gómez Dávila

                  Comment

                  • #39
                    Originally posted by Heraclitus
                    You do have to admit that in unmanned spaceflight, ESA is able to do more with less, unlike NASA probes.
                    No, ESA just does less with less.
                    I came upon a barroom full of bad Salon pictures in which men with hats on the backs of their heads were wolfing food from a counter. It was the institution of the "free lunch" I had struck. You paid for a drink and got as much as you wanted to eat. For something less than a rupee a day a man can feed himself sumptuously in San Francisco, even though he be a bankrupt. Remember this if ever you are stranded in these parts. ~ Rudyard Kipling, 1891

                    Comment

                    • #40
                      Originally posted by DanS


                      No, ESA just does less with less.
                      No, it has done practically the same non-manned stuff as NASA with less funds.
                      Modern man calls walking more quickly in the same direction down the same road “change.”
                      The world, in the last three hundred years, has not changed except in that sense.
                      The simple suggestion of a true change scandalizes and terrifies modern man. -Nicolás Gómez Dávila

                      Comment

                      • #41
                        Originally posted by DanS
                        The costs for developing space technology can't be skipped, but why is this a concern of the government? Why not return this money to the taxpayer, who will allocate the funds based on what he thinks is important to support?
                        Why even have a government?

                        Because government exists to do these kinds of large scale programs and the private sector isn't going to be able to do them for a long time if at all if ever. Yes Nasa as it stands today is a total waste of tax payer money, and no I don't think just giving them a blank check will fix it, but after a suitably evil airforce general has cleaned the place up they'll need money to do stuff.

                        There is no demand in the private sector to invest in anything other then small toy projects, and even that will go away.

                        This actually isn't soviet communism, unless any government at all is soviet communism.
                        Last edited by Whoha; January 9, 2008, 13:44.

                        Comment

                        • #42
                          Originally posted by Whoha
                          There is no demand in the private sector to invest in anything other then small toy projects, and even that will go away.
                          'Course, that might be due to the fact that all the BIG toy projects are being paid for, with money that doesn't exist, by pork-happy senators...
                          1011 1100
                          Pyrebound--a free online serial fantasy novel

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                          • #43
                            Originally posted by Ramo

                            Radical Islam?
                            QFT. Teh fashionably irrational fear of China in teh West is amusing enough, but nothing compared to their ludicrous obsession with "radical Islam."
                            THEY!!111 OMG WTF LOL LET DA NOMADS AND TEH S3D3NTARY PEOPLA BOTH MAEK BITER AXP3REINCES
                            AND TEH GRAAT SINS OF THERE [DOCTRINAL] INOVATIONS BQU3ATH3D SMAL
                            AND!!1!11!!! LOL JUST IN CAES A DISPUTANT CALS U 2 DISPUT3 ABOUT THEYRE CLAMES
                            DO NOT THAN DISPUT3 ON THEM 3XCAPT BY WAY OF AN 3XTARNAL DISPUTA!!!!11!! WTF

                            Comment

                            • #44
                              Originally posted by Elok


                              'Course, that might be due to the fact that all the BIG toy projects are being paid for, with money that doesn't exist, by pork-happy senators...
                              Not so much, Nasa only gets about 15 Billion a year, and it will take far more then that to do anything of substance.

                              The fact is that no private business can make money investing in space flight because it is quite expensive, and doesn't yield much in the way of direct and concrete benefits yet.

                              Comment

                              • #45
                                Radical Islam taking over as top dog in science and space exploration is truely hilarious.

                                -Arrian
                                grog want tank...Grog Want Tank... GROG WANT TANK!

                                The trick isn't to break some eggs to make an omelette, it's convincing the eggs to break themselves in order to aspire to omelettehood.

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