The Genesis : Common sense vs. Nietzsche

[Imran Siddiqui]

Saying that we seduce each other with knowledge doesn't make any real sense at all.

You are nuts. People are "seduced" by knowledge of secrets all the time. Its the whole point of spy agencies.

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Wezil


I actually get that from Bill Hicks.

Eddie Izzard

"Blessed are the huge scaly monsters, for THEY..... shall inherit the earth"

[Kidlicious]

[QUOTE] Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui

Saying that we seduce each other with knowledge doesn't make any real sense at all.

You are nuts. People are "seduced" by knowledge of secrets all the time. Its the whole point of spy agencies.

Now come on. That's much different from just knowledge in general, thinking for yourself, being creative, all the things the religionists could care less about.

[Kuciwalker]

Originally posted by Oncle Boris
How did I know that LOTM would make the most boring post of the thread ?

I thought it was more interesting than anything you've suggested about the topic...

[Kidlicious]

That might be because you're the only one who read it.

[Geronimo]

Originally posted by Kuciwalker




I thought it was more interesting than anything you've suggested about the topic...

QFT

Changed the way I look at religious texts actually

[Kidlicious]

You might like this one as well...

"...And spotteth twice they the camels before the third hour, and so, the Midianites went forth to Ram Gilead in Kadesh Bilgemath, by Shor Ethra Regalion, to the house of Gash-Bil-Bethuel-Bazda, he who brought the butter dish to Balshazar and the tent peg to the house of Rashomon, and there slew they the goats, yea, and placed they the bits in little pots. Here endeth the lesson."

[Dracon II]

What did God mean to tell Adam in the Genesis ?

a) Nietzsche believes that the Forbidden Fruit is the expression of the Jewish priest's fright of science, which would destroy the idea of God.
b) But a more commonsensical explanation would be that God told Adam that if he ****ed Eve, Eve would give birth and her ***** would hurt.

Which explanation is correct ?

I think that both the Nietzchean and pop-Freudian interpretations aren't very helpful.

The key is that the tree is called the tree of knowledge of good and evil. The question is, why wouldn't God want Adam and Eve to know the difference between good and evil? The snake suggests the answer, that to be able to make such judgements would make men "like God", and thus this capacity for moral judgement is reserved to God. Humans, therefore are not to exercise moral judgement, but simply trust and obey the commands of God without question. The ability of man to make moral judgements leads them into "error", division, insubordination, and, as Genesis suggests, hubris. It also leads man eventually to question God himself. Thus it does not refer to the ability of "science" to undermine God, but the ability of ethics to undermine God. By giving man the ability to make his own judgements about good and evil, the apple allows man to asks questions like "if God is good, why does he allow evil to happen?" and forces men to supplement their belief in God through recourse to theological and philosophical defenses (such as Leibniz's notion that we must, by necessity of God's infinite justice and goodness, live in the best of all possible worlds). As the enlightment rejection of the absurdities of the scholastics and mental gymnastics of the church demonstrate, such speculation is ultimately poisonous to genuine religion.
You can see this problem in Job where Job's friends attempt to give him reasons for his suffering, such that he has sinned. Job rejects this, knowing that he is a good man, but still questions why he has been so afflicted, especially given the belief of his friend that bad things only happen to bad people. God rebukes him, and his friends, by rebuking their prideful questioning of his own nature and design. God's basic response to Job is "where were you when I created the Earth? Who are you to question me and what I do?".

This is basically a Hobbesian interpretation... that the apple gave man the ability to exercise private judgement on questions of good, evil and ethics, rather than rely completely on the authority and command of the cosmic sovereign, God. And as you know, for Hobbes, private judgement of good and evil is one the key reasons for man's "fall" into a state of nature. I'm not sure if this is the correct interpretation, but it makes sense to me. God seems to me to require absolute obedience, regardless of whether his commands or actions seem good or evil... (take the example of Abraham and Isaac). Though there are problems with that interpretation, such as when God allows Abraham to change his mind and spare some citizens of Sodom from destruction.

[Kuciwalker]

Wezil, you're being extraordinarily dense in this thread. Why? "lol teh bible is unclear" is a rather weak argument for atheism.

One really easy explanation: God was using it to communicate with people thousands of years ago, with completely different languages and cultures. Thus, we're going to have difficulty understanding its meaning in the context of our culture, even after we managed to translate it accurately.

[Kidlicious]

God is the alpha and the omega. Duh. Such things don't limit a being of that nature. The amibuities and contradictions much therefore must either be intentional or a sign that it's all a bunch of nonsense.

[Wezil]

Originally posted by Kuciwalker
Wezil, you're being extraordinarily dense in this thread. Why? "lol teh bible is unclear" is a rather weak argument for atheism.

One really easy explanation: God was using it to communicate with people thousands of years ago, with completely different languages and cultures. Thus, we're going to have difficulty understanding its meaning in the context of our culture, even after we managed to translate it accurately.

And you call me dense. You're arguing a diety that is time specific. He makes no sense wrt modern culture. Please.

[Kidlicious]

Possibly he meant that God is dead.

[Wezil]

Originally posted by Kidicious


Possibly he meant that God is dead.

I considered that. Or he's on extended vacation. Maybe the language changed and god forgot to keep up.

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Wezil
Maybe the language changed and god forgot to keep up.

That's happening to alot of people these days.

[Wezil]

Have you heard Hicks bit on Dinosaurs?