The Abrahamic Curse & The Peace Process

[LordShiva]

Good luck

[Krill]

i'll need it.

[LordShiva]

You could go for Jericho instead

[Krill]

I'd rather stay in Durham in a building and in the warmth

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by Elok

Presumptively He hated the Muslims less than the Brits, since He gave the former several centuries to rule Israel without permission whereas the latter had power over it for less than fifty years.

Thats cause youre a backward Islamophobe, who groups all muslims together.

Us enlightened friends of Islam, realize that Israel was occupied successively by the Omayyad Caliphate, the Abbasid Caliphate, the Fatimids, the Ayyubids, the Mamelukes, and the Ottomans.

The longest lived occupation was the Ottomans. Clearly, THEY only got as long as they did, cause they tended to treat the Jews better than the other muslim regimes. And it was under them, in the 1500s, under the influence of a Jewish courtier, that the a relatively significant number (10,000 or so) of Sephardic Jews settled in Israel, cementing a Jewish majority in Sefat and Tiberias, and solidifying Jewish communities in Jerusalem and Hebron, and establishing the core of the "old Yishuv". It was also under the Ottomans that about 20,000 or so Hasidic Jews settled in Israel in the 18th and early 19th century, creating a Jewish majority in Jerusalem. And it was in the waning years of the Ottomans, that the first and second Zionist aliyahs took place, during which time the Jewish population grew to over 100,000, a large number of Zionist rural settlements were established in the coastal plain, and Tel Aviv was founded, as well as considerable growth in West Jerusalem and Haifa.

The almighty dispensed with the Ottomans only after they had served their purpose, obviously.

Have a very lovely day

[Dinner]

LotM when did Ashkanazi Jews begin resettling in significant numbers? Wasn't there a movement started in the late 19th century when the Ottomans still controlled Palestine/Israel?

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by Oerdin
LotM when did Ashkanazi Jews begin resettling in significant numbers? Wasn't there a movement started in the late 19th century when the Ottomans still controlled Palestine/Israel?

There were two movements. One was a movement by Hasidic Jews (who ARE Ashkenazim) beginning the mid-18th century, including, IIUC, such mystical luminaries as Rebbe Nachman of Bratslav. These guys were fatalistic mystics, with no real interest in human politics, and were NOT Zionists, generally lived on charity from Jews abroad, and, later, were generally opposed to the Zionist project (in contrast to the earlier Sephardic community) They added about 20,000 Jews to the local population, for an "old Yishuv" (old community or settlement) total of about 30,000.

The first major Zionist movement to settle the land to create a modern Jewish society, was the Chovevi Zion movement, which began settling in 1882 (Petach Tikvah was founded in 1879 as a modern community, but its first residents were "old Yishuv" people escaping poverty in Jerusalem) They founded Rishon LeZion, and other communities. The Second aliyah is dated to 1905 or so - its distinguished from the first aliyah by its commitment to collective farming, the Hebrew language, etc.

All this happened before 1914, and so under Ottoman rule. During the war many of the Zionist settlers were expelled as enemy aliens (since they were nominally Russian subjects, the Ottomans not having provided a path to naturalization) some stayed anyway, some fled to Egypt. Of those who fled, most returned with Allenby.

[Imran Siddiqui]

LOTM, stop trying to make the thread about Jews!!

[ZEE]

ITS TEH JOOS!! JOOS EVERYWHERE!!@11!

erm... sorry.

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
LOTM, stop trying to make the thread about Jews!!

[Lul Thyme]

Originally posted by lord of the mark


What that means, of course, is that Jesus was a Settler.

Then he started spamming...

[snoopy369]

From what I recall of history, overall the muslim rulers were kinder to jews than their Christian rulers... with some exceptions of course, but for much of the pre-crusades history - as well as the ottoman period - they were given higher status than other religions (as they were 'of the book') and not required to pay as many taxes etc.... around the crusades I think this was not always true, but that's largely due to the internal and external politics.

So basically, muslims like jews fine so long as Christians aren't bugging them ... but now we're doing it again, so ...

[snoopy369]

Originally posted by GePap

These are the tribes of Israel, twelve are not too many
Reuven, Shimon, Yehudah, Dan, Gad, Asher, Issachar, Zevulun, Manasheh, Efraim, Binyamin and Naphtali

You did know why Asher gets annoyed at the "Jewification" of the forums, right?

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by snoopy369
From what I recall of history, overall the muslim rulers were kinder to jews than their Christian rulers... with some exceptions of course, but for much of the pre-crusades history - as well as the ottoman period - they were given higher status than other religions (as they were 'of the book') and not required to pay as many taxes etc....

They were people of the book, like Christians, and had to pay special taxes, like Christians, all according to the treaty (or proclamation, or something) of Omar. This distinguished them from pagans, who in theory had no right to live at all, and could be converted by force. In fact treatment varied with time and place, as it did with Christians. That hundreds of years of toleration with non-citizenship and limitations of various kinds (in contrast to muslim members of the Ummah), punctuated by occasional severe violence, was good compared to pre-enlightenment Christianity, says something about pre-enlightenment Christianity to be sure, but hardly justifies the picture of Jewish life under Islam as somehow one long golden age.

[Sirotnikov]

Originally posted by Lul Thyme


Then he started spamming...