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Robert Pickton. Serial killer. Fed women to pigs. Convicted of...2nd degree murder

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  • Robert Pickton. Serial killer. Fed women to pigs. Convicted of...2nd degree murder

    ^^ keywords.



    Evidence needed for first-degree convictions was kept from jury, Pickton investigator says

    ROBERT MATAS

    From Tuesday's Globe and Mail

    December 11, 2007 at 4:07 AM EST

    NEW WESTMINSTER, B.C. — In a highly unusual public statement, the former head of Vancouver's Missing Women Task Force says he believes serial killer Robert Pickton would have been convicted of first-degree murder if information had not been held back from the jury.

    Don Adam also told reporters yesterday that police did not find evidence that would have supported criminal charges against others for murder of drug-addicted prostitutes from Vancouver's Downtown Eastside.

    "We need to deal with evidence, and if the evidence is not there, we cannot engage in a witch hunt," he said.

    He felt Mr. Justice James Williams had acted fairly within the constraints placed on him. But "full justice" was not done, Mr. Adam said.

    Mr. Adam was the head of the Missing Women Task Force at the time of Mr. Pickton's arrest in February, 2002.

    He sat in the back row of the public gallery in B.C. Supreme Court, listening to the evidence, on several days during the 105-day trial. He retired from the RCMP last week.

    The jury found Mr. Pickton guilty of six second-degree murders, indicating that they believed Mr. Pickton intended to kill the women but the murders were not planned. A conviction of first-degree murder requires the jury to find that the murders were planned and deliberate.

    Mr. Adam's decision to speak out after a 34-year career in the Mounties may be considered by some as an act of lunacy, he told reporters outside the New Westminster courthouse yesterday.

    But the verdict did not feel right to him.

    "If there is a person here who does not know [Mr. Pickton] planned those murders then I am on the wrong planet," Mr. Adam said.

    "I believe we let [the jury] down," he said. "We took a year out of their lives, we didn't give them everything and they did what they could."

    Judge Williams issued several rulings on the admissibility of evidence during the lengthy trial. A court order prohibited the news media from reporting on the matters.

    Mr. Adam wondered how the jury will feel when they finally hear everything. "Haven't we betrayed them?" he said.

    Judge Williams told the jury that they were in the best position to know the truth. "I don't think so," Mr. Adam said. "I think people who heard the most were in the best position."

    Mr. Adam said he was hoping to stir a public debate over whether courts should withhold information from juries. His intention was not to attack the criminal justice system, he said. "I think there should be an honest dialogue about keeping everything from the jury," he said. "Is that right? I don't know. But it is worth talking about."

    Mr. Adam also dismissed suggestions from Mr. Pickton's defence team that Mr. Pickton's brother, Dave Pickton, his friend Dinah Taylor or his business associate Pat Casanova may have played a role in the murders

    Defence lawyer Adrian Brooks told the jury that the forensic links of the three alternative suspects were stronger than Robert Pickton's ties to the evidence.

    Dave Pickton's connections were "extremely significant" and the jury was not getting the whole picture, he said. Mr. Casanova had the means, the opportunity and the expertise to commit murder as well as an association with one of the women who was murdered, Mr. Brooks also said. Mr. Brooks told the jury police rushed to judgment in deciding that Robert Pickton was the only one involved.

    Mr. Adam told reporters that Robert Pickton "got every break in the world because people underestimated him." The evidence was not sufficient to bring charges against any other suspects, Mr. Adam added.

    Robert Pickton and Dave Pickton lived in "very distinct worlds," Mr. Adam said. The evidence was not sufficient to move ahead with charges against Ms. Taylor, Mr. Casanova or anyone else, he also said.

    Mr. Adam, who questioned Mr. Pickton after his arrest, said he saw "malignant evil" in Mr. Pickton's eyes. "I had just the smallest sense, as he was playing with me, of what it must have been like for those women when they were in his control," he said, adding that Mr. Pickton was a chameleon.

    Later, Dave Pickton said during a brief telephone interview he was "not involved" in what his brother was doing. "Talk to the cops," he said. "Go talk to the cops. They will tell you."


    Does anyone else find it unsettling that somebody who brags about killing 49(?) women can be convicted of anything but 1st degree murder?
    "The issue is there are still many people out there that use religion as a crutch for bigotry and hate. Like Ben."
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  • #2
    Jeez. What does one have to do to actually get the punishment thier crime merrits in Canada? Was the jury composed of morons? How many people does the prosecutor have to be able to prove he killed before they start thinking he might have planned it?
    I make no bones about my moral support for [terrorist] organizations. - chegitz guevara
    For those who aspire to live in a high cost, high tax, big government place, our nation and the world offers plenty of options. Vermont, Canada and Venezuela all offer you the opportunity to live in the socialist, big government paradise you long for. –Senator Rubio

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    • #3
      If he was mad couldn't that mean 2nd degree.

      In the UK we don't have degrees of murder but we do have manslaughter due to diminished repsonsibility.
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      • #4
        Damn. Didn't Hannibal Lecter do the something similar?

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Riesstiu IV
          Damn. Didn't Hannibal Lecter do the something similar?
          In a roundabout sort of way, yes.

          Bricktop is more fitting.


          As to 2nd or 1st degree....Who really cares? Pickton is one of the few we will keep locked up forever. He will be denied parole regardless of when he applies for it.
          "I have never killed a man, but I have read many obituaries with great pleasure." - Clarence Darrow
          "I didn't attend the funeral, but I sent a nice letter saying I approved of it." - Mark Twain

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          • #6
            What evidence was exactly kept away from the jury that Mr. Adam is so adamant about?

            And besides, according to wiki, he still has 20 more murder trials to go.
            “I give you a new commandment, that you love one another. Just as I have loved you, you also should love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.”
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            • #7
              Surely six convictions of 2nd degree murder would warrant life in prison? What is the whining about?

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by dudemanjack
                Surely six convictions of 2nd degree murder would warrant life in prison? What is the whining about?



                As Imran points out, he has 20 more counts to go. Pickton will die in jail.
                "I have never killed a man, but I have read many obituaries with great pleasure." - Clarence Darrow
                "I didn't attend the funeral, but I sent a nice letter saying I approved of it." - Mark Twain

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Robert Pickton. Serial killer. Fed women to pigs. Convicted of...2nd degree murder

                  Originally posted by Asher
                  ^^ keywords.



                  Evidence needed for first-degree convictions was kept from jury, Pickton investigator says

                  ROBERT MATAS

                  From Tuesday's Globe and Mail

                  December 11, 2007 at 4:07 AM EST

                  NEW WESTMINSTER, B.C. — In a highly unusual public statement, the former head of Vancouver's Missing Women Task Force says he believes serial killer Robert Pickton would have been convicted of first-degree murder if information had not been held back from the jury.

                  Don Adam also told reporters yesterday that police did not find evidence that would have supported criminal charges against others for murder of drug-addicted prostitutes from Vancouver's Downtown Eastside.

                  "We need to deal with evidence, and if the evidence is not there, we cannot engage in a witch hunt," he said.

                  He felt Mr. Justice James Williams had acted fairly within the constraints placed on him. But "full justice" was not done, Mr. Adam said.

                  Mr. Adam was the head of the Missing Women Task Force at the time of Mr. Pickton's arrest in February, 2002.

                  He sat in the back row of the public gallery in B.C. Supreme Court, listening to the evidence, on several days during the 105-day trial. He retired from the RCMP last week.

                  The jury found Mr. Pickton guilty of six second-degree murders, indicating that they believed Mr. Pickton intended to kill the women but the murders were not planned. A conviction of first-degree murder requires the jury to find that the murders were planned and deliberate.

                  Mr. Adam's decision to speak out after a 34-year career in the Mounties may be considered by some as an act of lunacy, he told reporters outside the New Westminster courthouse yesterday.

                  But the verdict did not feel right to him.

                  "If there is a person here who does not know [Mr. Pickton] planned those murders then I am on the wrong planet," Mr. Adam said.

                  "I believe we let [the jury] down," he said. "We took a year out of their lives, we didn't give them everything and they did what they could."

                  Judge Williams issued several rulings on the admissibility of evidence during the lengthy trial. A court order prohibited the news media from reporting on the matters.

                  Mr. Adam wondered how the jury will feel when they finally hear everything. "Haven't we betrayed them?" he said.

                  Judge Williams told the jury that they were in the best position to know the truth. "I don't think so," Mr. Adam said. "I think people who heard the most were in the best position."

                  Mr. Adam said he was hoping to stir a public debate over whether courts should withhold information from juries. His intention was not to attack the criminal justice system, he said. "I think there should be an honest dialogue about keeping everything from the jury," he said. "Is that right? I don't know. But it is worth talking about."

                  Mr. Adam also dismissed suggestions from Mr. Pickton's defence team that Mr. Pickton's brother, Dave Pickton, his friend Dinah Taylor or his business associate Pat Casanova may have played a role in the murders

                  Defence lawyer Adrian Brooks told the jury that the forensic links of the three alternative suspects were stronger than Robert Pickton's ties to the evidence.

                  Dave Pickton's connections were "extremely significant" and the jury was not getting the whole picture, he said. Mr. Casanova had the means, the opportunity and the expertise to commit murder as well as an association with one of the women who was murdered, Mr. Brooks also said. Mr. Brooks told the jury police rushed to judgment in deciding that Robert Pickton was the only one involved.

                  Mr. Adam told reporters that Robert Pickton "got every break in the world because people underestimated him." The evidence was not sufficient to bring charges against any other suspects, Mr. Adam added.

                  Robert Pickton and Dave Pickton lived in "very distinct worlds," Mr. Adam said. The evidence was not sufficient to move ahead with charges against Ms. Taylor, Mr. Casanova or anyone else, he also said.

                  Mr. Adam, who questioned Mr. Pickton after his arrest, said he saw "malignant evil" in Mr. Pickton's eyes. "I had just the smallest sense, as he was playing with me, of what it must have been like for those women when they were in his control," he said, adding that Mr. Pickton was a chameleon.

                  Later, Dave Pickton said during a brief telephone interview he was "not involved" in what his brother was doing. "Talk to the cops," he said. "Go talk to the cops. They will tell you."


                  Does anyone else find it unsettling that somebody who brags about killing 49(?) women can be convicted of anything but 1st degree murder?

                  Should he be executed?
                  Life is not measured by the number of breaths you take, but by the moments that take your breath away.
                  "Hating America is something best left to Mobius. He is an expert Yank hater.
                  He also hates Texans and Australians, he does diversify." ~ Braindead

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                  • #10
                    I though he was guaranteed life without parole for the initial six convictions. What's the point of trying him for the rest?
                    The undeserving maintain power by promoting hysteria.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Sloww -

                      To keep him from doing it again?

                      To send a message to others?
                      "I have never killed a man, but I have read many obituaries with great pleasure." - Clarence Darrow
                      "I didn't attend the funeral, but I sent a nice letter saying I approved of it." - Mark Twain

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Wezil
                        As Imran points out, he has 20 more counts to go. Pickton will die in jail.
                        Depends. Do you have the consecutive/concurrent distinction wrt sentencing?
                        I make no bones about my moral support for [terrorist] organizations. - chegitz guevara
                        For those who aspire to live in a high cost, high tax, big government place, our nation and the world offers plenty of options. Vermont, Canada and Venezuela all offer you the opportunity to live in the socialist, big government paradise you long for. –Senator Rubio

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Wezil
                          Sloww -

                          To keep him from doing it again?

                          To send a message to others?

                          Punishment. If this doesn't warrant it, what does?
                          I know, let me say it. Nothing does. I happen to disagree.
                          Life is not measured by the number of breaths you take, but by the moments that take your breath away.
                          "Hating America is something best left to Mobius. He is an expert Yank hater.
                          He also hates Texans and Australians, he does diversify." ~ Braindead

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by DirtyMartini
                            I though he was guaranteed life without parole for the initial six convictions. What's the point of trying him for the rest?
                            I didn't see the point in the first trial (surely something could have been agreed upon by way of plea...).

                            That said, if your family member was one of his victims I suspect you might want to see him tried and convicted for it.

                            Pickton will someday have a parole hearing - he just won't get parole.
                            "I have never killed a man, but I have read many obituaries with great pleasure." - Clarence Darrow
                            "I didn't attend the funeral, but I sent a nice letter saying I approved of it." - Mark Twain

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by SlowwHand



                              Punishment. If this doesn't warrant it, what does?
                              I know, let me say it. Nothing does. I happen to disagree.
                              The sole reason being bloodlust? I'll pass thanks.
                              "I have never killed a man, but I have read many obituaries with great pleasure." - Clarence Darrow
                              "I didn't attend the funeral, but I sent a nice letter saying I approved of it." - Mark Twain

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