If we had more guns, the Omaha mall shooting may not have happened

[Darius871]

This thread makes my eyes bleed.





Keep it coming!

[Sandman]

Don't forget that any dictatorship worth its salt can raise loyalist militias to supplement the regular armed forces.

[Elok]

Originally posted by Vesayen
A. There would be MASSIVE defection in the army
B. El Presidente would loose whatever public support he had.

Both of which would happen whether the bombed dissidents were armed with Kalashnikovs or sticks and stones. The armament of the citizenry is irrelevant compared to the loyalty of the far better-armed military.

Also, I haven't read in depth on the Holocaust or Stalin's Russia, but IIRC Hannah Arendt lists deep political apathy and disillusionment as one of the necessary initial conditions for totalitarianism to take root. Hitler came to power with a substantial chunk of the public supporting him and a far larger chunk just shrugging and saying, "oh, whatever."

[Elok]

Originally posted by Kuciwalker
Guys, why are you actually talking to Ves? Surely everyone noticed long ago he's just stupid and there's no point.

Because dogpiling on him is fun and most of us are bored?

[Zkribbler]

Archie Bunker made this point decades ago. He argued we could foil air hijackings by passing out guns to all the passengers when they got on the plane and then collecting them at the end of the flight.

[Theben]

Well, apparently some lunatic just shot up a church in Colorado, so I guess we should be armed to the hilt when entering a house of peace.

[Aeson]

If we gave everyone nukes we could eliminate almost all problems within a few hours.

[Wezil]

Originally posted by Darius871
This thread makes my eyes bleed.





Keep it coming!

QFT!.

This is a good one.

[SlowwHand]

I'd have popped him. The guy in the mall, getting to the point.

[Dis]

most of the population isn't smart enough, and responsible enough to own guns.

If we had guns everywhere, we'd have many more deaths from accidental shootings, and simple arguments.

[GePap]

The truth is most people are killed by their friends and family, not by strangers.

[Dis]

that statement is misleading. You are implying that all the deaths are accidental shootings. Most are husbands killing their wives, gang activity, or someone who feels they have been wronged. But it is true shootings by strangers is really uncommon in the U.S.

I read a headline that says only 35 people died from strangers in NYC last year. That's a very good number.

It's silly to go through life worrying about being killed by a stranger.

Just make sure you don't piss someone you know off who has a gun. . And don't cheat on your spouse.

[Blake]

Originally posted by Vesayen
Not at all.

Criminals and the deranged cannot be controlled by laws. Criminals ignore them, the insane as well, if they want guns, they can go get them.

I don't think anyone has properly rebutted this point.

"The insane, if they want guns, can go get them?"

REALLY?

No seriously. In a country like NZ, one requires a firearms license in order to buy a gun. Concealable weapons and automatic weapons, especially concealable automatic weapons, are nearly impossible to get, with or without a license.

I mean, you'd need SERIOUS criminal connections to get your hands on such a weapon, being merely insane would NOT be enough.

There are laws which mandate firearms to be locked in a safe, if you are insane and decide to just steal a gun, you will not have too much luck (of course some people don't follow the law).



This means, in order for an insane person to go on a rampage with a gun, it has to work like this:

1) A person has a gun.
2) The person goes insane.

If the person goes insane before acquiring a gun, it will take him much time and effort to acquire a gun.

And noting also, that the gun he does eventually acquire, is not likely to be a particularly potent one, most likely it will be a bolt-action hunting rifle or shotgun. Both of these have limitations when it comes to killing more than a few people. YES, a well trained marksman with the hunting rifle could take down half a dozen people maybe, especially with a good concealed position and the element of confusion, but again we're talking an insane person, everyone sees him totting this huge ass rifle and runs away screaming, he can't hit them because they're fast moving targets, he certainly can't get headshots.
The shotgun can only kill one or two people, then has to be reloaded, which may present difficulties, it requires the gunman carry around extra shells and also know how to quickly reload - the more time he spends fumbling around reloading, the more time there is for others to get away, or to tackle his ass. YES, someone skilled with using a shotgun would be able to reload a lot more quickly, but we're talking an insane person.

So again, in order for a shooting to happen in NZ, the person needs to already have a gun, already be skilled in it's use, then go insane.

Bringing up the criminal is a detraction, I'm making no distinction on whether the gun and gun-skill is acquired legally or otherwise. Criminals as a rule do not go around shooting people willy-nilly, if someone gets the chance to shoot at them, even in theory, they're being a lousy criminal. Of course a criminal can go insane and on a rampage, just like a law-abiding citizen can go insane and on a rampage.

As a rule however, in NZ, the criminal element would own fewer guns and less potent guns, only the ones with very good connections and very good at evading police would have automatic rifles or pistols. That they are highly skilled at what they do, means they are unlikely to be deterred by guns in the hands of sheeples. They wont put themselves in a position to be shot at.

Gun control works. It may not be a silver bullet for all gun-related woes, but it greatly reduces the scope for all gun-related deaths.

Gun control does not mean eliminating guns from society. It means... controlling the use of guns! It means, restricting the ownership of guns, and restricting the types of guns which can be owned.

[Theben]

Originally posted by Dis
that statement is misleading. You are implying that all the deaths are accidental shootings. Most are husbands killing their wives, gang activity, or someone who feels they have been wronged.

TIME magazine did a report several years ago about 100 people who had died from gunshot wounds. 54 had died from suicide or accident. And that percentage held up against many other studies.

Basically if you own a gun you are much more likely to die from a bullet than a non-gun owner.

[Elok]

Blake, please present evidence for your claim that crazy people are incapable of being competent murderers. There are many different types of crazy, and you can be convinced that the Illuminati are tracking you through transmitters in your dental fillings and still retain deadly skill with any number of weapons. So long as you don't have the shakes, or hallucinations, or something like that, you can be completely nuts and perfectly skilled at killing people. It's just a matter of thinking you have to eliminate all the redpills before the Agents take them over, then training for a couple of months.

EDIT: Or was it the blue pill? It's been a while since I saw the first Matrix, I just know it's a popular delusion for uncreative psychotic types to adopt.