Planet Earth without the USA

[Geronimo]

Originally posted by onodera

If Hezbollah attacks en-masse from Lebanon, which country will you nuke? Nuke any, and everyone around will unite in righteous indignation against the Zionist aggressor.

Hezbollah is not an existential threat to israel so in that case no doubt Israel would not use any nukes.

[Heraclitus]

Originally posted by OzzyKP

I agree that Mormons would quickly resettle their promised land, not just Utah btw, but Illinois as well. The religious dimension to this issue is HUGE. I think we have less to worry about China and Russia becoming militant and, as someone pointed out, the Arabs taking this as justification that Allah has destroyed the Great Satin. Moderate governments would be toppled and wars would begin.

At the same time Christians would probably also see this as the Rapture and also see the increasing warlike nature of the Arab countries (no doubt invading Israel again) and interpret it as Armageddon (and ya know, they'd probably be right). I imagine secularized countries like Europe would find their way back to faith pretty quick (either converting to militant Islam or renewing devotion to Christianity, perhaps in some new sects that crop up). I think even non-western nations would realize something big is going on and that Buddha, Krishna, Confucious, etc never said anything about 300 million people vanishing into thin air (unless I'm mistaken) and realize that Islam and Christianity may have answers to what is happening and convert in droves. Though, again, I imagine new branches of each religion would crop up. It wouldn't just be the same denominations we are familiar with.

So perhaps Europe and South America would intercede on the side of Israel and other Arab neighbors. China would find some new markets by selling to both sides. Militants in Pakistan might spark another, far more deadly (this time nuclear) war, with India. The returning Americans (not all of them would return, but plenty would) would probably want to help but would be more focused on rebuilding their own nation. Maybe they'd sell off military hardware to Europe in exchange for rebuilding dollars.

I have to disagree about Europe, I said that we assume there is a reasonable explanation. If such an explanation existed it would most likley be belived by most of the population of the EU, far east and China (especialy considering its anti-religius stance). On a side note, I am willing to bet that several countries migh even be willing to fake a resonable explanation for several reasons.

Concerning the Arabs, you may be right. Even if they belived the rational explanation, they would still consider it a sign from God.

Do you tink the EU may have trouble with its immigrant population? And if it cracked down on them would they be facing war with muslim countries? Who would win in a pan-Muslim jihad versus the EU? Where would India and China stand? Would the Jihad extend to them as well?

Russia is a bit of a wild card in this whole thing. Is it possible the Russians might try in the insuing years to expand their influence in eastern Europe? And what about Turkey?

[OzzyKP]

I think the scenario stretches believability (more so) if we are to suppose there is a reasonable explanation for an entire country to just disappear. I can only think of divine intervention and like space aliens as a possible cause. Either one would cause mass panic and religiosity.

[Heraclitus]

Originally posted by OzzyKP
I think the scenario stretches believability (more so) if we are to suppose there is a reasonable explanation for an entire country to just disappear. I can only think of divine intervention and like space aliens as a possible cause. Either one would cause mass panic and religiosity.

A freak nanobot accident. Displacement of matter from an alternative Earth. (That gives me an idea.)

Lets assume one reasonable explanation is an experiment gone horridly wrong.

[Igloodude]

A missile defense energy shield set around all US borders created a space-time continuum distortion that swapped 2007 with pre-BeringLandbridge US land.

I can see the US deployed military units and countries uninterested in landgrabbing (mostly, NATO) convincing what was left of the UN to declare a hands-off on US land. Then USians re-colonizing New England and the Pacific Northwest while the "government" (essentially what's left of the DoD chain of command) sells land usage/resource rights and excess military gear to the rest of the world and rolls the cash raised into subsidizing the re-colonization.

[OzzyKP]

Exactly my scenario igloo

[Perfection]

Originally posted by Igloodude
A missile defense energy shield set around all US borders created a space-time continuum distortion that swapped 2007 with pre-BeringLandbridge US land.

I can see the US deployed military units and countries uninterested in landgrabbing (mostly, NATO) convincing what was left of the UN to declare a hands-off on US land. Then USians re-colonizing New England and the Pacific Northwest while the "government" (essentially what's left of the DoD chain of command) sells land usage/resource rights and excess military gear to the rest of the world and rolls the cash raised into subsidizing the re-colonization.

Silly Igloo, NATO can't stop the Mexicans, nothing can!

[Vesayen]

Originally posted by Geronimo


Hezbollah is not an existential threat to israel so in that case no doubt Israel would not use any nukes.

Beat me to it.

Hezbollah attacking "en mass" would be slaughtered. If they were stupid enough to mass together and attack Israel, it would just make them a convenient target. Israel has heavy hardware, Hezbollah does not.

[Lancer]

Europe populated North America for the most part, this wouldn't happen again. Nor could US troops abroad hope to even get there let alone repopulate much, maybe parts of New England. The rest would be absorbed and repopulated by Mexico and China. Look for US troops to set up warlord states in places like Iraq. In europe they appeal for aid getting home and get it. In asia they're screwed.

The really interesting bit is what happens around the world. China, Russia, and the EU would emerge as the three real powers, and the EU would remain too decentralized to accomplish anything real. Russia doesn't have the spare population to populate much. So China sends its millions in its great maritime fleet now used to move its vast trade. Japan does the same with much more limited population capability, but is quickly Finlandized. China would expand across North America very quickly. It could move the current population of the US to North America and not miss them at home at all. Political control of North America would pass to China and persecution of all non Chinese populations would soon follow, as in Nepal. Tiawan would soon vote to rejoin China as well, knowing they have no hope of independance without the US. Heads would roll there.

The Chinese, Russia share out the Persian Gulf. The EU isn't invited to the party under threat of oil cutoff by Russia.

The Chinese eventually land first on Alpha Centauri.

That's about it, China wins...you lose.

[Heraclitus]

Originally posted by Lancer
Europe populated North America for the most part, this wouldn't happen again. Nor could US troops abroad hope to even get there let alone repopulate much, maybe parts of New England. The rest would be absorbed and repopulated by Mexico and China. Look for US troops to set up warlord states in places like Iraq. In europe they appeal for aid getting home and get it. In asia they're screwed.

The really interesting bit is what happens around the world. China, Russia, and the EU would emerge as the three real powers, and the EU would remain too decentralized to accomplish anything real. Russia doesn't have the spare population to populate much. So China sends its millions in its great maritime fleet now used to move its vast trade. Japan does the same with much more limited population capability, but is quickly Finlandized. China would expand across North America very quickly. It could move the current population of the US to North America and not miss them at home at all. Political control of North America would pass to China and persecution of all non Chinese populations would soon follow, as in Nepal. Tiawan would soon vote to rejoin China as well, knowing they have no hope of independance without the US. Heads would roll there.

The Chinese, Russia share out the Persian Gulf. The EU isn't invited to the party under threat of oil cutoff by Russia.

The Chinese eventually land first on Alpha Centauri.

That's about it, China wins...you lose.

I don’t know about that. The US disappearing, might just be the kick the EU would need to become a global player. Since they couldn't rely on the US for military force anymore, and NATO would essentially become the European military force. The UK would actually take the EU seriously, knowing its claim to fame as the 52nd state is over, the Easter EU countries would immediately look towards Brussels for protection, because of the bad experience with Russia in their recent history. The pooled military resources of the remainder of NATO could easily match anything the Chinese or anyone else might throw at them.


India would not stand still, and the Europeans might be sympathetic to them settling the US. In fact I could see a EU-India alliance forming. They might even start shipping African colonist’s to the former US, for "humanitarian" reasons, or let open the land up for the Latin American countries, so they stop burning rainforest.

And the EU gets to Alpha Centauri first, because we figure out fusion power first.

[Lancer]

Russia has the EU by the balls though...energy. Russia starts turning off the tap and one after another the divided european nations fold, cutting deals. Russia's interests will then be to tighten their grip by gaining control of the Persian Gulf. China, busy with North America, cuts a deal with Russia and the two of them march in and take control of energy. They are the only two with hope of prominance. China wins because they gain control of North America.

[Lancer]

India is a non player. What colonists arrive in North America will be met by Chinese customs officials.

[Heraclitus]

Originally posted by Lancer
Russia has the EU by the balls though...energy. Russia starts turning off the tap and one after another the divided european nations fold, cutting deals. Russia's interests will then be to tighten their grip by gaining control of the Persian Gulf. China, busy with North America, cuts a deal with Russia and the two of them march in and take control of energy. They are the only two with hope of prominance. China wins because they gain control of North America.

You do know we could just start burning the cheap oil, right? Or get a few nuclear plants up and running?

[Heraclitus]

Originally posted by Lancer
India is a non player. What colonists arrive in North America will be met by Chinese customs officials.

Why, you just load the Indians/Africans up on boats, and give them military protection if any dirty Chinese try to conquer the rapidly multiplying population?

Plus you can reduce the territory that you would need to colonize and protect, simply by giving Alaska to Russia, and by returning vast chunks of land to Mexico. You could get on their good side with this as well.

[Lancer]

Cheap oil? Where from? Nuke plants? That takes time. Everyone in the US just vanished, right? Things will happen so fast...The first boat loads of Chinese immigrants will arrive in a week. They'll follow fast after that, tens of thousands every week with a sack of rice on their shoulders and seeds in their packs. The first Chinese food place opens inside 3 weeks.

Meanwhile, the Russians and Chinese will fill that power vacuum in the Persian Gulf before the party really gets going in Tehran. The Brits and Germans will stop celebrating as soon as they realize there's no more gas for their Rolls and Mercedes. The people demand fuel!