Define "democratic socialism"

[BeBMan]

While we are at defining things....

We have now two parties in the parliament that say they champion "democratic socialism", the social-democratic SPD (currently part of the guvmint), and the bit further left though not orthodox communist "Die Linke" (meaning surprisingly "The Left" )

Both are quite hostile to eachother, so I doubt they mean the same when they babble about "democratic socialism". So it's a great mystery what exactly that would be. Both btw said they favor a market economy but I guess with different level of state intrusion.

Maybe the poly wisdom can help me finding out what to expect from a "democratic socialism" (if those guys are ever able to put it into practice is another question).

[Japher]

Whatever you have and other people like will now belong to the poor. Unless you have lots of stuff people like than you can keep it all and tell other people with less stuff to give their stuff to the poor.

There will also be free ice cream.

[BeBMan]

I thought free ice cream was communism? Maybe you're in the wrong thread, hm

[Riesstiu IV]

Like national socialism but more democratic and less jew hate.

[BeBMan]

That's easy though. Means nearly everything could be DS.

[CrONoS]

communism with no balls

[BeBMan]

Oh **** I forgot to use a msg icon. This thread is doomed

[lord of the mark]

My impression is that there is historically a continuum from democratic socialism to social democracy, and of course both words have been used differently at differnt times and places.

We might start what all these have in common. They are democratic - that is they advocate chanign society (at least in countries that have viable democratic systems) by legal, electoral action, based on mass support. They thus are in constrast to parties that advocated vanguard movements, that decry bourgeois legality as an illusion, etc, etc.

They also self-consciously advocate the interests of and consider themselves the representatives of the "working class" howsoever defined, and for economic policies based on "social justice" howsover defined, and and they in general do not accept that absolute laissez faire is social justice, or optimal economic social policy.

Given that, their economic policies can concievably cover everything from complete abolition of private property and markets, to acceptance of almost laissez faire economics, tempered by some social welfare system.

In the USA after the split of the old Norm Thomas Socialist Party, the term Democratics Socialists was adopted by folks who wanted larger scale intervention and Social Democrats by those who wanted something closer to third wayism (though in the 1960s even those guys were "left" economically of where Blairism went) Im not sure the origin of that terminological distinction - IIUC the SPD in Germany in the 1920s was fairly fully "socialist" in its views of where the economy should eventually end up. I suspect it has a lot to do with the policies of the German and Scandinavian SPDs in power in the post-war era, and perhaps with the terminology of Italian politics. IIUC UK and France never used parallel terminologies, at least not formally.

[LordShiva]

Originally posted by BeBro
Oh **** I forgot to use a msg icon.

[Heraclitus]

So many communist and atheist threads, I feel so warm and fuzzy inside... :happymarx:

PS I believe that not only is happy Putin a necessity, we need to have a happy marx/stalin/lenin/mao smiley too.

[LordShiva]

Originally posted by Heraclitus
happy Putin

Originally posted by Heraclitus
happy marx/stalin/lenin/mao

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by Heraclitus
So many communist and atheist threads, I feel so warm and fuzzy inside... :happymarx:

Who says a social democrat has to be a Marxist, or even an athiest?

[Heraclitus]

Originally posted by LordShiva

Come on just one happy communist smiley. I mean how am I supposed to respond to Agathons posts without it?

But I agree that Happy Putin takes precedens.

[Heraclitus]

Originally posted by lord of the mark


Who says a social democrat has to be a Marxist, or even an athiest?

No one, I just thought it would be a good opurtunity to troll, since sooner rather than later this thread will be threadacked by the denizens of the Nedaverse.

BTW I thought we were talking about democratic socialists?

[LordShiva]

Originally posted by Heraclitus


Come on just one happy communist smiley. I mean how am I supposed to respond to Agathons posts without it?

Agathon ran away after Asher came back