Hey, atheists . . . .

[MrFun]

Re: Re: Hey, atheists . . . .

Originally posted by Asher

Religious people, communists; the point is you guys believe in fiction and kill people for it.

That's all there is to it.

Yeah, since I'm a faithful Christian, would you like to know how many people I have killed because of my belief?

[Provost Harrison]

Re: Hey, atheists . . . .

Originally posted by MrFun
Often, on this forum, whenever there is discussion of religion in general, some resident atheists here like to rehash exclusively on historical and present accounts of how people of different religions have oppressed others, focusing only on the ugly side of religion.

Well I guess some of you have forgotten the crimes against humanity that were committed for the sake of atheistic means/goals. Stalin's bloody purge of Orthodox and Catholic clergy for example. And how about Mao's Cultural Revolution, when he and his goons systematically destroyed monasteries and churches?

My point to you guys is that while religions of the world have their ugly side, you cannot ignore the ugly side of atheism. Keep that in mind next time you jerk your knee in excitement when you're about to rehash the usual tirade about the bloody Crusades, or today's persecution of gays and women in extreme-Muslim countries while ignoring the good that religions have done for humanity.

I can acknowledge and discuss the ugly side of religions but at least I'm also knowledgeable about the good that others of the different religions have done. Can some who are atheists honestly do the same thing?

You can talk, you're classed as an abomination to most organised religions...

[Asher]

Originally posted by Ben Kenobi
Wow, I agree with Mr. Fun.

People in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.

Wait, since when did atheists stone people? I thought only religious people called for stonings.

REVISE ME, BEN.

[Wezil]

It's okay MrFun. We'll pray for you.

[Asher]

Re: Re: Re: Hey, atheists . . . .

Originally posted by MrFun
Yeah, since I'm a faithful Christian, would you like to know how many people I have killed because of my belief?

Your posts are almost on the level of murder.

[Elok]

While I feel I must excoriate MrFun for reviving this annoying discussion, the fact that Stalin or whoever was not "motivated by atheism" means little. Of course he wasn't. It's hard to be motivated to such an extreme by a belief that's just a negation of another belief, which is all the word "atheism" means. I find it more instructive that, without religion, people will simply invent social or economic theories such as communism or "racial hygiene," and persecute over those instead. The end result is no different. That is the true lesson of the twentieth-century atrocities, and the reason why the religion-causes-craziness bugbear is totally bunk.

Set up a large group of people with a standing army of violent, land-hungry aristocrats led by an absolute despot, and said despot will find some way to send the worrisome military out of the region where they won't be a threat to him and just might get him more power into the bargain. He might call it "the crusades" if the people have a strong faith and he's the leader of that faith; if not, he'll call it "a battle to preserve our way of life" and massacre Jerusalem for containing undesirable social classes or something.

[Asher]

Originally posted by Elok
While I feel I must excoriate MrFun for reviving this annoying discussion, the fact that Stalin or whoever was not "motivated by atheism" means little. Of course he wasn't. It's hard to be motivated to such an extreme by a belief that's just a negation of another belief, which is all the word "atheism" means.

No, that's what an agnostic is. Atheists have as much of a belief as theists do.

It's a common mistake, Elok.

[Dinner]

Elok, that post was dumb. Claiming atheism motivated or was responsible to Stalin's actions like religion was THE motivating factor in religious wars is stupid. Yes, motivation does matter when it is claimed an idea is responsible; as the OP did.

[Asher]

Don't be too harsh on Elok -- being religious, it's hard enough to resist going on a murderous rampage that asking for sensible posting in addition is just plain unreasonable.

[Elok]

I was not defending the OP. I was saying that you're a bunch of numbnuts too.

[Asher]

Whose nuts are more numb -- a celibate priest or a 20-something homosexual?

[Wezil]

Well duh - the 20-something homo. The priest's nuts are blue.

[Cort Haus]

Originally posted by snoopy369
Atheism is just as much a religion as Catholocism. It's Athe-ISM for a reason...

Agnostic is not a religion, on the other hand. Atheists believe there is no god; agnostics don't give a !@%$.

Those anti-religious actions listed in the OP were Atheist religious actions; I don't think Mao/Stalin believed in Atheism any more than half of the top religious types believe truly in any religion. In both cases they are using rhetoric to accomplish a political goal...

Originally posted by snoopy369
Atheism is the explicit belief that God does not exist.

I also do not believe that there are fairies at the bottom of the garden. Is disbelief in fairies a religion too?

Lorizael already demolished the absurd sophistry of claiming the suffix -ISM proved a religion while ignoring the A- prefix which indicates the absence of the thing that the -ISM was referring to. Wriggle all you like, he had you done up like a kipper there.

Actually we've had this tedious debate before, at great length in a Cybershy thread which launched an assault on atheists. Molly Bloom posted a particularly comprehensive demolition on the ludicrous notion of atheism as a religion, which I took the trouble of digging out. There's plenty more on there which is relevant to this thread.

http://www.apolyton.net/forums/showthread.php?postid=4780383#post4780383

Originally posted by molly bloom
Excuse me for pointing out that 'atheism' does not share the attributes of organised religion.

What is the holy book or what are the scriptures where the revealed and only truths of atheism reside ?

Who are the priests, priestesses or popes of atheism ? How is the discipline of the supposed 'atheist religion' enforced ?

What tithes do atheists have to pay ?

What are the sites of pilgrimage for atheism, which mythical figures founded atheism, who polices the collective wisdom of atheism ?

'Atheism' is simply not accepting as true the 'arguments' for the supposed existence of a god or gods, that is, supernatural creators or divinities held responsible by some people for the creation of the universe.

Nobody could answer it then. I doubt anyone will answer it now.

[BlackCat]

Wezil, please don't elaborate about how you have achieved your knowledge

[Elok]

Neither is necessarily a numbnuts unless he wastes time blabbering about the obvious superiority of his ideology on the internet while cool, informative threads, like mine about the Untergunther movement in France, sink like stones.

EDIT: http://apolyton.net/forums/showthrea...hreadid=172495