The insurgency is dead -- the best $400 million per annum ever spent

[Dinner]

It's the front page graph on the source sighted by DanS!!!!!

[Patroklos]

Perhaps you should read the OP again. I realize you will spout your same BS anyways, but at least then your smugness will clearly be a front and you will look less stupid, amazingly.

[PLATO]

Originally posted by GePap
Basically, even if we accept the premise that the insurgency is complete, we are finished with problem #2 (#1 was Saddam) in Iraq. That has taken some time. Now how long until #3 (having an Iraq stable enough not to collapse into a full blow civil war) is complete?

Very interesting.

How long until an unstable Iraq without US forces is in our interest? If the answer to that question is that an unstable Iraq is never in our interest, then I think you just acceeded to a long term US presence in Iraq if needed to prevent a collapse.


*****

Oerdin, when you were in Iraq, you didn't inhale the fumes from all those WMD containers everbody was looking for did you??

[GePap]

Originally posted by PLATO


Very interesting.

How long until an unstable Iraq without US forces is in our interest? If the answer to that question is that an unstable Iraq is never in our interest, then I think you just acceeded to a long term US presence in Iraq if needed to prevent a collapse.

As far as I know, I have NEVER writen a single post saying the US had to remove forces from Iraq, not once.

Do I think invading Iraq was worth it for the US at this point? Not at all. While things could have been worse, this war has gone pretty badly, and my trepedations about the Bush admin. turned out to be more than correct.

but from the start I have said that one of the biggest problems this administration had was not preparing the American people for the true cost of this imperial action. Admin. whores like Patrokolos are numerous, but still a minority, and people like you with a seemingly endless supply of support are also rare. Most Americans, for understandable reasons are not willing to think about geo-political ramifications before they think about how their sons, husbands, fathers, daughters, wives, mothers, are being used in Iraq and the Trillions we will eventually spend. They have every right to think this was a massive failure in execution, and who am I to pose theoretical possible outcomes in Middle Eastern geopolitics to some family whose loved one misses the holidays, is injured, is maimed or scarred for life, if they come back alive?

We are now paying to minimize the consequences of this administration's idiocy. Anything they do right at this point is very late, and never makes up for their unbelievable hubris and incompetence. Too many people have died due to their inadequecy, and I am sorry they will never be asked to pay for their actions.

That said, while I have resigned myself to a long term of action by the US in Iraq, it is still very likely that the American people will get sick and tired of the cost of Bush's Folly, which in the end might lead to even more misery, perhaps not, but they will have every right to want to stop paying for all the mistakes done in their name.

[MarkG]

Originally posted by Zkribbler
We are now arming and training both the Shia and the Sunni

hold on. we want peace and to achieve it we give guns to people?

[BeBMan]

Let's hope the insurgency hasn't just gone into FG mode

[Ming]

I think some people need to get less personal and stick to discussing the topic and NOT the posters.

Thank you

[Wezil]

But it's fun to talk about FG.

[Patroklos]

Admin. whores like Patrokolos

Nice Gepap.

Please list the positions of the Admin I agree with. Not as easy as you thought is it? Oh right, I disagree with YOU, so I must be a neocon Jesus-nazi BU****LER supporter.

and who am I to pose theoretical possible outcomes in Middle Eastern geopolitics to some family whose loved one misses the holidays, is injured, is maimed or scarred for life, if they come back alive?

I disagree with you having no right, but since you think that way I don't expect you to comment/disagree with anything I mention on this topic every again.

[Ming]

Uhhh... Patroklos... what part of my warning did you not understand.
I don't care who started it, but I do care that it stops NOW!

[GePap]

Originally posted by Patroklos

I disagree with you having no right, but since you think that way I don't expect you to comment/disagree with anything I mention on this topic every again.

I didn't say I had no right, did I? Only that why should they listen to me? (Or you) about the sacrifice they and their families are being asked to make.

Eventually the American people will tire of this, and that is their right - and maybe when they do excercise their right to be finished with covering up for Bush's mistakes, then we might see the full extent of the damage done, though hopefully not.

Please list the positions of the Admin I agree with.

from your posting, it appears you support:
Opposition to abortion
Staying in Iraq and Afghanistan long term
Oppositon to gay marriage and the DADT policy continuing
Admin's position on most if not all social issues
Admin's general economic direction
Opposition to environmental regulations

Seems a substantial list.

[Patroklos]

(Or you) about the sacrifice they and their families are being asked to make.

Because I am one of them maybe?

Opposition to abortion

Wrong. I am for compromise (first trimester abortion only).

Staying in Iraq and Afghanistan long term

How is that a uniquely Bush point of view? Millions of democrats thingk the same thing. While I might agree with Bush (for different reasons), that hardly makes me a whore. Bush and I (and presumably you) agree on continued highway spending as well, does that make us both Bush whores?

What was my position on disbanding the Iraqi army?

What was my position on the minimalist approach to military occupation?

What was my position on mobilization?

Oppositon to gay marriage and the DADT policy continuing

How is that not simply a conservative/Republican position? Again, how does that specifically link me to Bush or make me his "whore?"

Admin's position on most if not all social issues

A little vague eh?

What was my position on his immigration plan?

Admin's general economic direction

You mean the direction of growing, healthy, and successful? Are you saying you don't like this direction?

What was is my position on military spending?

What is my position on wartime taxes?

What is my position on the size of the government work force?

Opposition to environmental regulations

Are you serious? Note again no specifics, so please tell me one thing that supports this before I list the evidence to the contrary (what was my position on fishery regulation?).

You seem to have a problem with me being conservative in general. I will repeat how rare it is for me to actually say my position on anything, you mistaking me pointing out the unique stupidity (not in this thread (agree with you for the most part), why the hell did you feel the need to attack me here in the first place?) of your postions is not the same as me telling you mine. So please explain how this makes me a "whore" for Bush?

[GePap]

Originally posted by Patroklos


Because I am one of them maybe?

So was Oerdin, and he sacrificed a lot more on the issue than you seem to have (boots on the ground and all), yet you dismiss his opinion. So, again, why should they listen?

As for your support for Bush, why be so defensive? I obviously don't respect many of your positions, but why should you give a ****? I don't care about what you think about my positions.

[Ming]

Sigh... discuss the topic and NOT the posters.

[Dinner]

The point to bringing up the year by year comparison chart prominently displayed on the top left corner of DanS's own source was to show the real cost of the last 9 months and not just the last 2 months.

I honestly feel that in all the cheering about how much improved Baghdad is that people are ignoring the utter failue which has been the other 10 months of this year. Take and average for the year, as DanS's source did, and you find the situation was the worst ever. It puts the last two months into perspective even if certain douche bags don't like it.