US - Dust off the Welcome mats

[Patroklos]

If you're ordered to do an illegal act, the course of action is to do as ordered, then report it.

Not true.

[SlowwHand]

Yes it is true.

EDIT: It is true unless you're going to shoot the man giving the order.

[DinoDoc]

Originally posted by SlowwHand
Yes it is true.

EDIT: It is true unless you're going to shoot the man giving the order.

An order which is unlawful not only does not need to be obeyed, but obeying such an order can result in criminal prosecution of the one who obeys it. Military courts have long held that military members are accountable for their actions even while following orders -- if the order was illegal.

http://usmilitary.about.com/cs/militarylaw1/a/obeyingorders.htm

[Patroklos]

Yes it is true.

If my commander orders me to say, falsify an official log, I am not required to do it. Now I can do it and report it at the earliest opportunity provided that illegal action ins't going to cause anything crazy to happen in the mean time and it probably won't be held against me.

However, if someone orders me to rake that refugee boat with machine gun fire for no reaon I am both expected to a) find out the legal reason I might not now about or b) not do it.

I have had captains demand stuff that was illegal (nothing serious) and as soon as I ask for that order in writing the demand goes away.

Its situational.

[SlowwHand]

Originally posted by DinoDoc
An order which is unlawful not only does not need to be obeyed, but obeying such an order can result in criminal prosecution of the one who obeys it. Military courts have long held that military members are accountable for their actions even while following orders -- if the order was illegal.

http://usmilitary.about.com/cs/milit...yingorders.htm

I'll tell you what. When you're out in the field, you break out the book and read it. I'm sure that will remedy the situation.

[DinoDoc]

Tell that to your cellmates in Leavenworth.

[Saygame]

Not quite Sloww. All services' Geneva code trainings require firm and outright disobedience to an unlawful order. And yes, you'd better be quite certain its an illegal order. My favorite methodology was to request my superior put his order in writing. That, at least, would make him think twice.

And second, one always has the right, even in the military, to rethink their objections. I remember hearing of a Special Forces major in Viet Nam who was an expert in special assasination assignments who enjoyed his job of face to face killing. On one special assignment he emptied the dead Cong's wallet for intelligence and came across a picture of his victim, wife and two children. He cracked overnite. He applied for CO status (conscientious objection) and despite some derision from teamates was granted it. Glass's probable error was not in demanding consideration for CO status.

[SlowwHand]

Originally posted by Saygame
And yes, you'd better be quite certain its an illegal order.

Thank you very much.

[Imran Siddiqui]

And if you were certain, you'd still do it and then file a report afterwards?

I'm assuming you would be the one shooting civilians because the superior said so?

[SlowwHand]

Screw off, Imran.

[Wezil]

Originally posted by Lul Thyme




I actually think it's important for soldiers (and for many people in many different jobs actually) to remember that they are foremost a human person and SECOND an employee and they can\should morally object to certain things when necessary.

At the risk of Godwinning this thread, what you said above is exactly the kind of thinking that helps Nazi-like groups to achieve so much. Everybody is just "doing their job".

I think your post has been answered by others in my absence.

And yes, you Godwinized it.