Canadian aggressors tase immigrant to death

[Asher]

Originally posted by Krill


Was he locked up alone? Was he charged with anything if he was locked up alone? Why couldn't the airport staff find a Polish-English translator in 10 hours? Did they offer him drinks or food (even if they just bought in an assortment of sandwiches and some juice it would obviously help the guy if he's been stuck in a room for 10 hours).

He was just in a customs room, not in a confinement room or anything.

And I don't know most of those answers. But I think the main blame lies with airport staff / customs officials more than the cops.

[Spec]

Originally posted by Asher

10 hours in a secure room with no food or water and no one that speaks your language...maybe?

I don't so much blame the cops here. The guy looked out of his mind. Sometimes people just react badly to being tased.

The real problem lies with Customs, and why this guy was locked in the room for so long and why his mother was told the guy wasn't at the airport when she came to pick him up.

Other poeple have died after being tased. Its nothing new.

Spec.

[Krill]

[q=Asher]He was just in a customs room, not in a confinement room or anything.[/q]

Doesn't matter. If he was in a customs room being interviewed, and then the interviewers walk out of the room and then lock it the customs room effectively becomes a confinement room.

[Asher]

Originally posted by Krill
[q=Asher]He was just in a customs room, not in a confinement room or anything.[/q]

Doesn't matter. If he was in a customs room being interviewed, and then the interviewers walk out of the room and then lock it the customs room effectively becomes a confinement room.

It doesn't look like he was being interviewed.

Unless you show proper documentation and get admitted, you can't leave the secured area "into the country". If there was problems, as apparently he had, you can't let them in. That doesn't require charging them.

[Krill]

"Secured area" =| 1 locked room. A locked section of the airport, definately, just not 1 locked room.

[Kuciwalker]

It also doesn't require keeping him isolated without food or water for ten hours.

[Flubber]

Originally posted by Kuciwalker
It also doesn't require keeping him isolated without food or water for ten hours.

The story reproduced does not say that he was. Instead it sounds as if he arranged to meet someone at the baggage carasol but since that was in a secure area, his relative could not come in and find him. So it appears that he stayed in the secure area while his relative was outside it

IT even says he left the secure area but his mother had left after waiting some time.

From what I am reading here it doesn't sound as if the guy was detained in customs at all. Instead we have someone that was acting erratically and apparently loitering for hours.

The police can come in for all sorts of criticism for using the taser here but all this stuff about 10 hours confinement etc etc don't seem borne out by the reproduced part of the story. Also I have never been in the "secure" part of Vancouver airport but the secure parts of other airports have amazing things like food and washrooms and phones.

So none of the customs or confinement comments makes any sense here. It is police apprehending someone that is looking agitated and apparently doing some property damage. I would think a taser is unnecessary when 4 police approach a suspect that is apparently unarmed-- even if the suspect does not respond to verbal commands ( having them not understood must be somewhat common for police and not unexpected at an airport

[Krill]

[q=Flubber]The story reproduced does not say that he was. Instead it sounds as if he arranged to meet someone at the baggage carasol but since that was in a secure area, his relative could not come in and find him. So it appears that he stayed in the secure area while his relative was outside it

IT even says he left the secure area but his mother had left after waiting some time.

From what I am reading here it doesn't sound as if the guy was detained in customs at all. Instead we have someone that was acting erratically and apparently loitering for hours.

The police can come in for all sorts of criticism for using the taser here but all this stuff about 10 hours confinement etc etc don't seem borne out by the reproduced part of the story. Also I have never been in the "secure" part of Vancouver airport but the secure parts of other airports have amazing things like food and washrooms and phones.

So none of the customs or confinement comments makes any sense here. It is police apprehending someone that is looking agitated and apparently doing some property damage. I would think a taser is unnecessary when 4 police approach a suspect that is apparently unarmed-- even if the suspect does not respond to verbal commands ( having them not understood must be somewhat common for police and not unexpected at an airport[/q]

That's why I asked if he was put in a locked room. If he was just in the secure area then I'm suprised the police didn't go up to him sooner. I'd sure as hell wonder why one guy was louitering in one place for that long. The only complaint I'd make was that the second taser was fired. The first one I can understand (not wanting to approach the Pole), but I also understand that it isn;t particulary brilliant to start relying on weapons that can be fatal to a small number of individuals.

[Flubber]

No airport, customs or security employees at the airport apparently tried to help either of them, he added.

Well its probably impossible to know who did or did not try to help the dead man.

AS for the mom, there are literally hundreds of people standing around airports and waiting-- so unless you ask for help, I doubt any would be offered. I found it interesting that she doesn't say she asked for help and was refused but instead says nobody tried to help.

Its not really relavent to the tasering but I think that competent adults have to take some responsibility for why they were standing around in an airport for hours and hours. I find it hard although not impossible to believe that no one at an airport can help someone find a lost relative.

The taser seems unnecessary.

[Flubber]

Originally posted by Krill


That's why I asked if he was put in a locked room. If he was just in the secure area then I'm suprised the police didn't go up to him sooner. I'd sure as hell wonder why one guy was louitering in one place for that long. The only complaint I'd make was that the second taser was fired. The first one I can understand (not wanting to approach the Pole), but I also understand that it isn;t particulary brilliant to start relying on weapons that can be fatal to a small number of individuals.

I am against using tasers, pepper spray or any other assault on another unless there is a real need.. Even an agitated suspect should be given repeated opportunities to surrender or comply. If the guy rushed them with a knife or something I would fully support police putting a bullet in his head-- But in the circumstances it seems they had ample opportunity to plan an approach-- there is no mention of any potential harm to others-- So I would think minimal force would required

[Flubber]

Originally posted by Asher

10 hours in a secure room with no food or water and no one that speaks your language...maybe?

Do you have a source for that? Nothing in the article says no food or water and some secure areas have restaurants and everything in them-- I believe some international travellers can connect in a country without evergoing through customs of that country. He may not have had food or water-- I doubt anyone really knows

Originally posted by Asher



I don't so much blame the cops here. The guy looked out of his mind. Sometimes people just react badly to being tased.

I do blame the police IF there were less intrusive methods to pacify someone in the circumstances. If someone is acting crazy but is unarmedn and not yet threatening anyone ( note I can't get the video to work at work), I would see a Taser as unnecessary

Originally posted by Asher



The real problem lies with Customs, and why this guy was locked in the room for so long and why his mother was told the guy wasn't at the airport when she came to pick him up.

I'm not seeing any locked room stuff in the posted article. Do you have another source or did you just assume that ? Bacasue what I read is he didn't leave the secure area because he was waiting for his mom there and probably did not realize she could not get in. When he finally went out, she was gone.

Also who said the mom was told he wasn't there? Maybe the airline could say if he was on the plane or not but I doubt that customs would have a readily accessible database of people that just entered the country.

And there is really nobody that can tell you if an individual is still in an airport

[Flubber]

Originally posted by Kuciwalker




If you're trying to put that forwards as the distinction between you and Americans... you don't have very much high ground, IMO.

IT was a backhanded reference to the other thread but it was probably wronheaded levity -- So do not get me wrong here . . . I have serious doubts as to the need to use a taser to appregnd someone in these circumstance-- my view might change once I can see the video myself

[Krill]

Originally posted by Flubber


I am against using tasers, pepper spray or any other assault on another unless there is a real need.. Even an agitated suspect should be given repeated opportunities to surrender or comply. If the guy rushed them with a knife or something I would fully support police putting a bullet in his head-- But in the circumstances it seems they had ample opportunity to plan an approach-- there is no mention of any potential harm to others-- So I would think minimal force would required

Yeah, I agree that 4v1 in that situation he could have been taken down hand to hand with an acceptable amount of risk to the police officers and public. I also agree that not tasering would be the right thing to do, and security policy should reflect that for this kind of situation. But if it doesn't I can't see the police being wrong, because unless I am mistaken, using a taser in this situation is allowable under (current) Canadian law, correct?

[Lefty Scaevola]

If you flip out in Canada, start throwing furniture, and grab a deadly stapler while shouting incomprehesilbe things at law eforcement in a nasty gutteral language, you had better make damn sure the language is French.

[Kuciwalker]

Originally posted by Flubber
IT was a backhanded reference to the other thread

I'm well aware of that. I'm pointing out that it doesn't really work.