I am inclined to Jew's version

[Darius871]

Originally posted by Elok


While you're at it, I recommend you turn to the works of Mao Tse-Tung the next time you're curious about Keynesian economics, Pekka.

[OneFootInTheGrave]

well roughly:

Jewish:God... The Father, one and only, Trinity? Are you nuts, this is idolatry.

Roman Catholic: God... Jesus was a God on Earth, equal with God the Father, and Holy Spirit... the three are one, and the Holy Spirit comes from both

Orthdox: God... Jesus was a God on Earth, equal with God the Father, and Holy Spirit... the three are one, and the Holy Spirit comes from the Father only


Protestant: God... Jesus was a God on Earth, equal with God the Father, and Holy Spirit... the three are one, even though some migh disagree, and the Holy Spirit comes from wherever you like...

Atheist: God... what other story do you want me to tell you and give me tithe please as well

Me: God, OK... Trinity: whatever, one or multiple I am fine with both.

[Zevico]

OMG Sweet I get in before LOTM does, I feel like his apprentice or something...

Well, yeah, but even the Jewish version proclaims that the Son of God will come doesn't it?

No. The Jewish version says that the Messiah will not be a divine figure. According to Jewish beliefs the Messiah will be some guy descended from King David. He may or may not rule Israel. Also, the rabbinic judges, or council, known as the Sahendrin, will gain power again and Israel will become a state filled with perfect little Israelites. How this is meant to come about no one is sure. Prior to the advent of religious Zionism, people thought that a miracle would bring all the Jews to Israel and *poof* the Messiah would come out of the woodworks. After the advent of religous Zionism, most Orthodox Jews think that by bringing every Jew into Israel the miracle will happen. Ultimately Israel will become some sort of beacon to the world--incredibly low crime rate, excellent society, everyone's religious, and all the other nations look to Israel for guidance and wisdom.
OT: What if every Jew were in Israel, except for like ambassadors to foreign countries? Would that even count?

SO. I have to say that the Jewish version of this whole thing is _much_ more rational. People are wearing tall hats and weird robes and all kinds of bling bling that usually turns out to be the belongings of Ragnor the Village Assassin anyway when they do reasearch and not the holy John of Candlemakers. It's problematic all the time. It's good stories, good talk, but when it comes to the very essential of it, you either believe Jesus is the way, who is actually God, and there's a holy ghost as well, that are actually all God but you have to go through Jesus or you have chosen wrong and ... too bad. It just doesn't sound what an omnipotent entity would do. Sounds like a poor man's version of a God who couldn't afford establishing some messages anyway

Congrats. According to Judaism as long as you're a monotheist and a good person you get into the Pearly Gates. No conversion required. Have a cookie and a nice day.

[Zevico]

That if you confess with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.

Pekka is essentially asking why not skip the Jesus part and just say "God is Lord."

[Vesayen]

Welcome to Team Judae

After you get snipped, you can come to our World Wide Jewish Conspiracy(TM) meeting next tuesday!

[Vesayen]

Originally posted by Kidicious


Well, yeah, but even the Jewish version proclaims that the Son of God will come doesn't it?

No.



Unlike Christianity which is waiting imminently for "redemption" Judaism is not, not really. Prayers rituals and observances discuss the meshiach coming though.

Oh and mankind is NOT inherantly sinful either. No original sin or any comprable idea in judaism. Also, sex is not evil. Also, within the first handful of pages G-D tells us to not trash the planet but instead to protect it, because it belongs to him(stewards etc).

How do you make up for your sins in Judaism? Not by saying "Sorry Pappy!" and then doing it again. You make up for your sins by making restitution(if they effected others) and commiting yourself to not repeating them!

Yeah, the meshiach(messiah) will come eventually, but what it will be is really unclear, it could be a descendant of King David, it could be something else entirley, not neccesarily even one person. It is difficult to distinguish between various writings and the Torah to decide what to accept and what was just what someone wrote.

AT BEST the meshiach is a descendant of King David, he is NOT divine in ANY WAY SHAPE OR FORM-he is just a guy. Some writings which some accept as cannon and some do not, say other things which change what the meshiach may not, it may not even be a single person, it could be persons, a social group or an idea, but the validity of those writings and views based on them, vary sect to sect, community to community and invidiaul to individual.

Saying the Jews are "waiting" is a false framing. Waiting for the meshiach is NOT the central tenant of Judaism, or even a big tenant, unlike Christianity where waiting for christs coming and the apocalypse is a central issue. I really dislike when non Jews try to compare Christianity and Judaism by saying "The christians say the messiah came and the Jews are still waiting". That may be a difference, but it is comparing a VERY important issue in Christianity, to a second or third tier issue in Judaism.

Judaism concerns itself with this world, with being a good person, day to day, not getting candy after you die. Despite spats of agnosticism in my life, this is the reason i've stayed an observant Jew.

There is little in Judaism about the afterlife except that it is there.

The christian trinity and the early era of Christian history simply does NOT make any sense logically, when you throw in analysis about socilogy, comparative theology and history, it is demonstrativley untrue. Living in a christian society, it is usually best to just get along well with my friends and neighbors and not discuss this.

Unfortunatley, every world religion suffers the same problems when put under such a lense, though Judaism, less then any others. That is not to say it is untrue, only that the gaping flaws of logic are smaller and less numerous, they are still there.





I also want to add on to what Zevico said to clarify. The Jewish idea of an afterlife is not a "us only" club. Whatever the afterlife is, in Judaism "everyone" gets in. Jews actually get the raw deal. Jews have a long list of rules they have to follow, though it is unknown if not following them will "keep you out" or not. To be "okay" with G-D in Judaism, non Jews just need to not steal, rape, kill and generally be good human beings... unfortunatley not being an idoloter is on the list too. Islam gets a pass for not being idoloters, Christianity proboably does not. However, I think G-D is proboably a cool guy, so that requirment is either an addition by man, or he'll give the nice christians a pass anyway, it is not their fault they were brainwashed , which of course goes for every other religion.




OneFootInTheGrave-I loved that LOL!

[Elok]

OTOH, all that gentile baby blood y'all drink is a SERIOUS infection control issue.

[Vesayen]

Yes, after we turn the blood of palestinian babies into wine...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blood_libel

[Elok]

Hey, at least Jesus turned the water into good wine. None of that rancid Manischewitz crap that tastes like the tooth fairy took a dump in it. That don't gladden the heart of this man, thank you very much.

EDIT: Sorry, I thought you were trying to work either a Communion barb or a miracles barb in with that cryptic remark (before you edited), so I guess I jumped the gun. Still, it was a good reply under pressure so I'm keeping it there.

[Berzerker]

I am a Christian..... my view of God is not aligned with the Christian version

umkay

[Vesayen]

Don't diss the Manischevitz ><.

If he could turn water into wine, why didn't he turn those nails into a bottle of aspirin? It seems like that would of come in handy...

[Elok]

Originally posted by Vesayen
Don't diss the Manischevitz ><.

If he could turn water into wine, why didn't he turn those nails into a bottle of aspirin? It seems like that would of come in handy...

Why bother? You read Kidicious's post, my savior is like the T-1000...except he takes about 36 hours to recover instead of five seconds. Still, if you compare "knives and stabbing weapons" to resurrecting the dead, giving sight to the blind, etc. you can see who got the better end of the deal. Booya!

Oh, and I can eat bacon. And I have a foreskin. Double booya.

[Jon Miller]

Here is something that will blow most nonChristian's minds... Christianity is not about going to heaven.

JM

[OzzyKP]

Originally posted by Impaler[WrG]
I agree you should do some reading Peka, but I recomend Nietzsche, begin with the Genealogy of Morals (its short and to the point) then proceed to Beyond Good and Evil (elaborates thouse same points in depth) then try to cap it off with some scolarly interpritations I recomend Walter Kaufmann the formost translator and students of Nietzsche's works.

Reading? Who needs reading? And let some egg-head Germans with funny beards tell him what to think? Hell no, Pekka knows everything about Good & Evil & Morals he needs to. Philosophers and theologians are just quacks trying to subvert his supreme knowledge of the subject. Plato, Kant, St. Aquinas and all the rest don't know ****.

[Berzerker]

Here is something that will blow most nonChristian's minds... Christianity is not about going to heaven.

they wont be disappointed

I'd bet that would blow the minds of alot of Christians too. But Jesus' message was more about making heaven here on Earth. The way he distinguished between "sinners and saints" when talking about the proximity to heaven shows he was talking about a spiritual plane, levels of enlightenment...