Tweet
Originally posted by DinoDoc
Well it is what I have to go on. I prefer to avoid reading minds when ever possible.
Well it is what I have to go on. I prefer to avoid reading minds when ever possible.
-
You must really hate metaphors.One day Canada will rule the world, and then we'll all be sorry. -
Um. . .he's not saying that just he should be paying more taxes.Originally posted by DinoDoc
My response to Imran which you seem to have missed: That's not what he said though. He's saying that he should pay more tax and I'm saying that optionis available to him right now and he seems to avoid taking it.
"The taxation system has tilted towards the rich and away from the middle class in the last 10 years. It's dramatic; I don't think it's appreciated and I think it should be addressed."“As a lifelong member of the Columbia Business School community, I adhere to the principles of truth, integrity, and respect. I will not lie, cheat, steal, or tolerate those who do.”
"Capitalism ho!"Comment
-
The rich do own the government. Look at the nature (and average economic standing) of those elected, the costs of campaigns, the primary selection process (at all levels of governmet) to determine who gets to run in the general election, and the pervasive access of lobbyists plus the control exerted by party apparatus of both parties.Originally posted by Patroklos
Actually it is. Very bad things would happen to the rights of poor people if the rich basically own the government.
They get to pay in all sorts of ways beyond income tax - sales taxes, excise taxes, gas taxes, social security. They pay, but that doesn't mean they have access, let alone control.The participation of the poor in the government through taxation is very important, it is basically their stake.
The poor are cared about to the extent that they are more useful than dangerous.If you think the rich don't care about the poor now (what they think actually), just wait until Buffet gets his way.
(a) they have it to give, it's a little different than if you're raiding trashcans for recyclable items and living off hamburger helper.Actually, most rich people give significant amounts of money to charities.
(b) it makes them feel good, whether they're limousine liberals or have some other compunction to feel like they're "doing their part." How many rich people are donating to the extent that it really crimps their lifestyles or wealth building? (Not saying whether they should or not, just asking what percent you think do?)When all else fails, blame brown people. | Hire a teen, while they still know it all. | Trump-Palin 2016. "You're fired." "I quit."Comment
-
Originally posted by Dauphin
You must really hate metaphors.
I'm about to get aroused from watching the pokemon and that's awesome. - PekkaComment
-
Very bad things would happen to the rights of poor people if the rich basically own the government. The participation of the poor in the government through taxation is very important, it is basically their stake. If you think the rich don't care about the poor now (what they think actually), just wait until Buffet gets his way.
You realize how completely absurd your argument is, right? Just think about it. For a few seconds. An end member case of the tax burden would be that the poor are taxed at 100% and the rich at 0%. Your argument would imply that the politicians would create some kind of workers' paradise in such a tax regime.
Buffet pays half the federal rate (note that it would be even more regressive if state taxes were included) as his secretary because capital gains are taxed at just over half the rate as the highest income tax bracket. And since the very rich (like Buffet) get the vast majority of their income from investments, while everyone else gets most of their income from labor, this skews the tax burden. Because of that, you assert that the gov't is not beholden to the very rich? Utterly, utterly ridiculous."Beware of the man who works hard to learn something, learns it, and finds himself no wiser than before. He is full of murderous resentment of people who are ignorant without having come by their ignorance the hard way. "
-BokononComment
-
BTW, I have no idea why rich people who argue for moderate welfare state capitalism are ridiculed by the right for not advocating some straw man version of what no one belives (why doesn't he live liek a hermit and abandon all material possessions to Dear Leader, ZOMGF teh ghyprocrite!!!!). It's not contradictory to believe that you can use some of your money more judiciously to better society than the government, and that the government can in turn do so better than aggregate charity in certain circumstances."Beware of the man who works hard to learn something, learns it, and finds himself no wiser than before. He is full of murderous resentment of people who are ignorant without having come by their ignorance the hard way. "
-BokononComment
-
I'm not arguing that he should live like a hermit. I don't begrudge anyone thier money. I'm just saying that if he wants to pay more in taxes, he should do so.I make no bones about my moral support for [terrorist] organizations. - chegitz guevara
For those who aspire to live in a high cost, high tax, big government place, our nation and the world offers plenty of options. Vermont, Canada and Venezuela all offer you the opportunity to live in the socialist, big government paradise you long for. –Senator RubioComment
-
He wants everyone who makes a lot of money to pay more in taxes. This has been explained multiple times to you.Comment
-
For gods sake. There are two sides to the issue.Originally posted by DinoDoc
I'm not arguing that he should live like a hermit. I don't begrudge anyone thier money. I'm just saying that if he wants to pay more in taxes, he should do so.
He's also saying that the poorer people are FORCED to pay TOO MUCH tax.
They can't just opt to pay less tax, and they are the ones who could really, really benefit from paying less tax in real quality of life terms.Comment
-
I'm always up for a tax cut, Blake. Give me a spending cut as well and I'll be a happy man.I make no bones about my moral support for [terrorist] organizations. - chegitz guevara
For those who aspire to live in a high cost, high tax, big government place, our nation and the world offers plenty of options. Vermont, Canada and Venezuela all offer you the opportunity to live in the socialist, big government paradise you long for. –Senator RubioComment
-
Why don't you think about what I actually said vice what you irrationally extrapolate from itYou realize how completely absurd your argument is, right? Just think about it. For a few seconds. An end member case of the tax burden would be that the poor are taxed at 100% and the rich at 0%. Your argument would imply that the politicians would create some kind of workers' paradise in such a tax regime.
Or to put it simply Ramo, did I actually advocate any particular ratio/percentage/regressive/progressive tax scheme?
In any case my only comment is that the tax burden should never be foisted entirely onto the rich (which lets face it, is the secret wet dream of many a liberal) and even stated I was arbitrarily talking about that scenario for the fun of argument.
Not my argument, but a fun line to run with. I believe what I actually said was the opposite, but in either instance if the poor are paying 100% or 0% we are basically talking about making them slaves or proles. I don't see how you get a workers paradise in either scenario.Your argument would imply that the politicians would create some kind of workers' paradise in such a tax regime.
Please, with quotations, show where I said that. And before you go off an another adventure in misinterpretation, please note the difference between being beholden and actually owned.Because of that, you assert that the gov't is not beholden to the very rich? Utterly, utterly ridiculous.
The difference, Ramo, is that taxes are mandatory. If you think the government is a good charity feel free to send them a check, they will not turn it down. Good luck getting them to spend it on the cause you want, but you're sending them checks of your own free will so I guess your reconciled with that fact.It's not contradictory to believe that you can use some of your money more judiciously to better society than the government, and that the government can in turn do so better than aggregate charity in certain circumstances.Last edited by Patroklos; November 1, 2007, 20:00."The DPRK is still in a state of war with the U.S. It's called a black out." - Che explaining why orbital nightime pictures of NK show few lights. Seriously.Comment
-
Ladies and gentlemen, I present Dinodoc!“As a lifelong member of the Columbia Business School community, I adhere to the principles of truth, integrity, and respect. I will not lie, cheat, steal, or tolerate those who do.”
"Capitalism ho!"Comment
-
Patty, your claim is that placing the tax burden on the rich somehow makes the government beholden to the rich and that "very bad things" would happen to the poor. The generalization here would be that taxing a class more means that the government is more beholden to it. I was applying a simple logical extension to that absurd belief (end member cases are useful in considering the validity of a claim). It's pretty easy to understand.
I have no idea why you quoted my post here, because that in absolutely no way has anything to do with the point that I was making.The difference, Ramo, is that taxes are mandatory. If you think the government is a good charity feel free to send them a check, they will not turn it down. Good luck getting them to spend it on the cause you want, but you're sending them checks of your own free will so I guess your reconciled with that fact.
"Beware of the man who works hard to learn something, learns it, and finds himself no wiser than before. He is full of murderous resentment of people who are ignorant without having come by their ignorance the hard way. "
-BokononComment
-
Riiiight. Then, what exactly were you trying to say by writing "very bad things would happen to the rights of poor people" as a consequence of the rich "ownership" of government?please note the difference between being beholden and actually owned."Beware of the man who works hard to learn something, learns it, and finds himself no wiser than before. He is full of murderous resentment of people who are ignorant without having come by their ignorance the hard way. "
-BokononComment
-
Wow, that's mighty dumb of youOriginally posted by DinoDoc
That's not what he said though. He's saying that he should pay more tax and I'm saying that optionis available to him right now and he seems to avoid taking it.
Comment
Comment