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Petraeus wins Washington political debate

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  • Petraeus wins Washington political debate

    Why did many parts of the left put themselves in a position to be demonstrated wrong immediately on the fact that violence in Iraq has declined significantly? Quite an own goal.

    Here's the Washington Post's editorial view of things (center-left establishment paper). This editorial was issued on the day that one of their reporters in Iraq was killed.

    Better Numbers
    The evidence of a drop in violence in Iraq is becoming hard to dispute.

    Sunday, October 14, 2007; B06

    NEWS COVERAGE and debate about Iraq during the past couple of weeks have centered on the alleged abuses of private security firms like Blackwater USA. Getting such firms into a legal regime is vital, as we've said. But meanwhile, some seemingly important facts about the main subject of discussion last month -- whether there has been a decrease in violence in Iraq -- have gotten relatively little attention. A congressional study and several news stories in September questioned reports by the U.S. military that casualties were down. Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton (D-N.Y.), challenging the testimony of Gen. David H. Petraeus, asserted that "civilian deaths have risen" during this year's surge of American forces.

    A month later, there isn't much room for such debate, at least about the latest figures. In September, Iraqi civilian deaths were down 52 percent from August and 77 percent from September 2006, according to the Web site icasualties.org. The Iraqi Health Ministry and the Associated Press reported similar results. U.S. soldiers killed in action numbered 43 -- down 43 percent from August and 64 percent from May, which had the highest monthly figure so far this year. The American combat death total was the lowest since July 2006 and was one of the five lowest monthly counts since the insurgency in Iraq took off in April 2004.

    During the first 12 days of October the death rates of Iraqis and Americans fell still further. So far during the Muslim month of Ramadan, which began Sept. 13 and ends this weekend, 36 U.S. soldiers have been reported as killed in hostile actions. That is remarkable given that the surge has deployed more American troops in more dangerous places and that in the past al-Qaeda has staged major offensives during Ramadan. Last year, at least 97 American troops died in combat during Ramadan. Al-Qaeda tried to step up attacks this year, U.S. commanders say -- so far, with stunningly little success.

    The trend could change quickly and tragically, of course. Casualties have dropped in the past for a few weeks only to spike again. There are, however, plausible reasons for a decrease in violence. Sunni tribes in Anbar province that once fueled the insurgency have switched sides and declared war on al-Qaeda. The radical Shiite leader Moqtada al-Sadr ordered a cease-fire last month by his Mahdi Army. Lt. Gen. Raymond T. Odierno, the top day-to-day commander in Iraq, says al-Qaeda's sanctuaries have been reduced 60 to 70 percent by the surge.

    This doesn't necessarily mean the war is being won. U.S. military commanders have said that no reduction in violence will be sustainable unless Iraqis reach political solutions -- and there has been little progress on that front. Nevertheless, it's looking more and more as though those in and outside of Congress who last month were assailing Gen. Petraeus's credibility and insisting that there was no letup in Iraq's bloodshed were -- to put it simply -- wrong.
    Last edited by DanS; October 15, 2007, 15:34.
    I came upon a barroom full of bad Salon pictures in which men with hats on the backs of their heads were wolfing food from a counter. It was the institution of the "free lunch" I had struck. You paid for a drink and got as much as you wanted to eat. For something less than a rupee a day a man can feed himself sumptuously in San Francisco, even though he be a bankrupt. Remember this if ever you are stranded in these parts. ~ Rudyard Kipling, 1891

  • #2
    Cue Ramo...

    What do you have for us this time
    "The DPRK is still in a state of war with the U.S. It's called a black out." - Che explaining why orbital nightime pictures of NK show few lights. Seriously.

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    • #3
      It's going to be another Vietnam!

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      • #4
        Excellent. I hope it continues. I'm dubious as to whether it will, and given the manifest incompetence of the Bush administration I think that's a reasonable viewpoint. Petraeus, however, has gained some measure of my trust.

        -Arrian

        edit: as noted in the article, a decrease in violence is only part of the puzzle. However, it's an important part and the key one the US military was supposed to accomplish. The political stuff has to be done by the Iraqis themselves with, perhaps, some help from US diplos (ugh).
        Last edited by Arrian; October 15, 2007, 16:07.
        grog want tank...Grog Want Tank... GROG WANT TANK!

        The trick isn't to break some eggs to make an omelette, it's convincing the eggs to break themselves in order to aspire to omelettehood.

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        • #5
          Aren't his parents Dutch? That automatically makes him a spineless pot smoking liberal.

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          • #6
            The once militants could take things a step further and join the political system. I they did so, they might even find themselves in an easier position to do what they've supposedly wanted all along: the US out of Iraq. Imagine instead of wasting time shedding blood, they peacefully take charge of the government and kick the US out? I would be ok with that result.
            EViiiiiiL!!! - Mermaid Man

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            • #7
              The OP still doesn't get it! It's just evaluating the rearranging of the deck chairs on the Titanic.

              Not one credible military authority claims the Iraq conflict can be won militarily. Success can only be achieved through political reconciliation.

              Where is the report card on how well the Sunni Arabs, Kurds, and Shia are getting along?? Where is the plan that will take us to victory?

              All the Surge has done is to kick defeat down the road, so that the Bush legacy can blame defeat on the next President.

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              • #8
                good news

                mission almost accomplished

                Divide the country up in 3 and try to keep the ethnic cleansing to a minimum until people have a chance to relocate and then get the hell out of Dodge...

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                • #9
                  Yup, that worked with India and Pakistan.
                  “As a lifelong member of the Columbia Business School community, I adhere to the principles of truth, integrity, and respect. I will not lie, cheat, steal, or tolerate those who do.â€
                  "Capitalism ho!"

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                  • #10
                    And the political breakthroughs have just continued to roll in..Oh wait, the law about the distribution of oil is falling apart.....

                    But I am glad to know that the levels of violence in Iraq are now only terrible, down from horrible, which is down from horrific. Who knows, by the time Bush leaves, they might be all the way down to bad.
                    If you don't like reality, change it! me
                    "Oh no! I am bested!" Drake
                    "it is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong" Voltaire
                    "Patriotism is a pernecious, psychopathic form of idiocy" George Bernard Shaw

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                    • #11
                      "center-left establishment paper"

                      Isn't that kinda shifting the meaning of 'left'? I believe that's called 'controlling the middle' or something.

                      By appearing to have organs of expression on 'both sides' of a political debate, a movement/ideology/whatever can control the 'reasonable middle' and thus set the boundaries of acceptable discourse in a society.

                      It appeals to our irrational tribal natures, doesn't it? Even your/our own team says ____ ...., so therefore the reasonable compromise must be X. How Hegelian.
                      "Wait a minute..this isn''t FAUX dive, it's just a DIVE!"
                      "...Mangy dog staggering about, looking vainly for a place to die."
                      "sauna stories? There are no 'sauna stories'.. I mean.. sauna is sauna. You do by the laws of sauna." -P.

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                      • #12
                        BTW the OP is completely retarded and the people who claim that a reduction of deaths in Sept-Oct had anything to do with the US are dreaming. EVERY year deaths decrease in Sept-Oct due to religious observations during the run up to Ramadan as well as the fact that the beginning of Ramadan normally happens during that time.

                        The OP doesn't cite a source or even an author but it is clear who ever wrote that is at best ignorant of life in a muslim country. "ATTACKS DECREASED DURING RAMADAN! THE SURGE HAS WORKED AS PLANNED" Rather such stupid claims show how willing some people are to grasp at straws.
                        Try http://wordforge.net/index.php for discussion and debate.

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Arrian
                          Excellent. I hope it continues. I'm dubious as to whether it will
                          Since last month included 2.5 weeks of Ramadan it is no wonder attacks and deaths went down across the country last month. Now if only Bush could find a way to make every month Ramadan then maybe the reductions could be made to last.
                          Try http://wordforge.net/index.php for discussion and debate.

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                          • #14
                            The OP doesn't cite a source or even an author but it is clear who ever wrote that is at best ignorant of life in a muslim country.
                            WaPo editorial board. If you had bothered to even do a minimal research effort, you'd have known that.
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                            • #15
                              I just like Petraus because he has a Roman like name. Maybe for his next trick we can send him to conquer the Parthians. Of course, then he'll demand a triumph and the Consulship...

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