What's with all the military types 'speaking out'?

[Lancer]

Often times its generals! Where is dicipline? By 'speaking out' they are making the mission that much more difficult. I though that was the job of the liberal media?

Next thing the top brass will be marching on Washington claiming the presidency, and the secret service will be trying to sell the job to senators. Rome II.

[SlowwHand]

Caligula returns!

[Grandpa Troll]

Lancer

I am certainly no political major in any sense of the imagination.

I am a veteran and no never made the rank of General although I was within viewing distance of several either passing in procession or listening to them babble on.

But, I believe now as I believed then, General Stormin Norman was right in hbis message but out of line the way he delivered it, he made a statement if only he was given a green light he could have taken down Saddam during Round I. he was WRONG by making the statement due to the fact he was not the "Commander-In-Chief" but rather the top dawg for GB Senior.

I felt the reason the so called job was never properly finished, was the U S knew it needed a reason to keep military over their, in some sort of fashion.

I still feel it was a business decision, somehow tied to oil.

No, not a Micheal Moore wanna-B here, but linked along the Terrorist Attacks, which stand alone as a reason to respond, the ever elusive WMD's, well, that dog dun hunted and never brought home the bacon, doesnt matter, we got our foot hung sideways in the trap known as [s]vietnam[/s] and no real easy solution remains.

But, these Generals are most assuredly either looking themselves to broker a deal, parlaying some cash from a book deal or even speaking on behalf of the efforts and still getting paid, and then again maybe they just didnt flat out arend with Dubyah and found themselves odd man out when the music paused.

Who knows, all conjecture here but I live in aland where it is ok to speak freely and receive no retribution....


/me remembers the You Tube video of the college student who was arrested during a recent speech......

[DaShi]

Military people shouldn't speak out unless they say something I agree with!

[SlowwHand]

You argue with yourself, DaShi.

[DaShi]

Actually, I was subtly poking fun at you.

[Dis]

I'm not a big fan of it either. But hopefully people will learn from this and not be so eager to invade another country like Iran.

He made 2 points I'll touch on. We did not hook up with civilian tribal leaders after the takeover, and we disbanded the Iraq military.

Although disbanding the military is pretty standard practice I'm sure. Only in hindsight can we see that did not help reduce opposition.

[Berzerker]

Cant remember the thread you asked about Kissinger being a war criminal, so I'll respond here. I just happen to be watching a lengthy documentary on Link tv 375 on Direct tv about his war crimes, Christopher Hitchens is one of the accusers and they got documents.

The secret (and illegal) bombing of Cambodia and subsequent invasion - the bombing was so horrific upwards of 2 million refugees fled to the cities as agriculture was decimated. This destabilization allowed for the rise of the Khmer Rouge and the Killing Fields. Prior to that the CIA sponsored a coup in Cambodia because the guy in charge was trying to stay neutral. The guy who got the job running the country immediately attacked the North Viets. Plenty more...

East Timor (1975), Ford and Kissinger meet with Suharto, Indonesian dictator with one of the largest militaries in the world, 90% from the USA, and give him the green light to invade East Timor. Roughly 1/3 of the population was exterminated and our news media was mum. The victims asked why the Australians wouldn't help since they helped against the Japanese invaders. Apparently Australia and Indonesia made a deal to divide up the oil there. Might explain why the Aussies were rather quiet about their reporters being executed. The coup in Chile, Pinochet, etc... This guy has the blood of millions on his hands...

[Wezil]

I don't excuse Nixon either.

[Pekka]

Who knows.

I also think military types should STFU most of the times. Is US being at risk in this war? No. This is an offensive effort, so there's no defensive part as in we're in danger. So, unless the defensive effort is going down the tubes, I don't see why I should care what military high ups cry about.

We know it's a business and a job, it's just a job to cry for more money and resources, tell that everything is well (regardless of the situation) and then if you don't do so good, fade away quietly, if oyu do well, keep drumming yourself as a hero and look into politics.

That's what it is in any country that matters. So what I think they're doing now? I think they're just looking to make some book deals and get their own fingers and hands washed from the mess. That's BS in my books. You were in charge, you are supposed to shut up and do the job, but that also is what you're supposed to do afterwards. Cry to people who can help you do your job, don't cry to the media years later. That's crap.

Do note! that this isn't me saying that they should be stooges. Not the least bit so, they should make the reality clear for all involved, however, public outcry in the media to hype yourself years after isn't the same thing. If he was like a stooge, it's STILL partly his responsibility, no matter how you look at it, he screwed up and the only thing he should do is keep the remaining military honour he has and suck it up.

if you look at some of those unfortunate soviet officers who knew what would happen to them should they own up the situation (even if they weren't responsible for things), you know, they were pretty much wiped out by Stalin. Now this stooge is crying and trying to get some face time on TV. What a douche Not a soldier. Just an officer with political hunger and also trying to make himself look like someone who was capable but oh well, he weren't able to make others see his ways clearly enough. This is the worst excuse for any kind of high up leader. The BIGGEST JOB IS to get those resources regardless the situation and not cry about it, this dude is a wimp who doens't even know his own job, what a loser. I guess the job was cozy enough to not resign when he was clearly unable to do his job. I mean hell, people resign from better jobs because of a principle all the time! What a wimp.

[Wezil]

Ahhh, nothing like a Pekka post to start your day.

[Pekka]

Wezil, you know I'm right though.

I'm sick of people who have lots of responsibility.... you know those people dodging it. Doing the exact opposite. Who cares if you don't have that new orthopedic chair under your ass adn your laptop isn't the quadro core supercomputer. So what? Do your job, douche!

It's like... OK here's the responsibility. I saw different types of leadership models in the service and some of them sucked, just like this guy. THIS guy is out of the reality himself. Maybe he spent too much time in the academia, who knows. OK so the model this guy is going after is, "I know what the problem is, but I can't do it unless you help me, and because you didn't help me, I failed".

No. His job is to make people help him regardless, otherwise anyone can do his job, I mean outsource that job to some smart Indian guy, at least he prolly makes all the optimal decisions and doesn't worry about a book deal. But no, you need guys who can get things done. That extends to the fact taht you're alone, now make it happen. I don't give a **** if you don't have help, get help. That's your job.

Hey, if I was responsible that the guys have their clothes on when they get out, that everyone has had food, you know, that didn't always go smoothly. THat's when you need a leader. The guy who finds out where that damn field kitchen is and go and smash some faces in to get that food and no excuses, I don't care what the problem is.

And that's actually difficult. So this guy, this guy has all the power and people working for him, and he can't get some policies changed or work around them or whatever. What a loser, like I said, he let everyone down. If you're worried that there's things missing and you're the highest up, I don't care what you do, but unless you're actively fixing up the situation, you're doing all the wrong things and you're failing like a loser.

It's not an excuse that politicians this and that. Then you find a way to get through to them, period. Even if they aren't human, the definition goes that you have the responsibility for your own guys, you can't get it done, you failed them. You think these Japanese guys, you know these guys doing all these suicides and stuff, they hardly are so guilty of the situation anyway. Does it matter? No. There's just no excuses.

Now compare to this guy? Uuh uuuh, it's been years, I know, I need mah face on TV and mah bucket. What a tool, douche and a loser. I wouldn't even buy a car from this guy, who knows how he got his job, I guess the right background. This is why I don't have any respect for any leaders who never did all the same things as the subordinates. Probably some pansy anyway.

You know, how difficult it is ot understand your job? YOu're the high up, you answer to poltiicians, people under you are military. Go kill these ****ers, try to stay in shape while doing it, here's your resources. You think Saddam's troops were/are crying about some policy or a packet in the post they missed? No, because it's an excuse. The hihger up you are, the less I can tolerate excuses, because we expect more from them, it comes with the job and that's why the salary is bigger.

[Wezil]

No one is ever responsible for anything wrong in America. This board is proof - When's the last time you saw an American admit they were wrong even when they clearly were? There's another thread on the go here where a good half dozen of them are in denial even after being called on their mistake.

Btw, I think your English writing is improving.

[Pekka]

My proving languae is not! I'm just tpying fast, it's not luck, I never had really bad English to begin with.

Surely this guy isn't the lone responsible one. But he should act accordingly to his status and let it go, OR admit that he is a failure himself, a real loser and a douche.

You don't see him doing that...

[Kidlicious]

Re: What's with all the military types 'speaking out'?

Originally posted by Lancer
By 'speaking out' they are making the mission that much more difficult.

No it doesn't. I don't see any reason why they should say what they want.