What's with all the military types 'speaking out'?

[SlowwHand]

What needs to happen is the president say, "Take Damascus. Call me when it's done". As an example.
This is what I want, it's up to you how you do it.

[OneFootInTheGrave]

http://www.alternet.org/story/17952/?page=1

back to the original question here is why:

You gave your life to the military, you voted Republican for many years, you say you served in the Pentagon right up to the outbreak of war. What does it feel like to be out now, publicly denouncing your old bosses?

Know what it feels like? It feels like duty. That's what it feels like. I've thought about it many times. You know, I spent 20 years working for something that -- at least under this administration -- turned out to be something I wasn't working for. I mean, these people have total disrespect for the Constitution. We swear an oath, military officers and NCOs alike swear an oath to uphold the Constitution. These people have no respect for the Constitution. The Congress was misled, it was lied to. At a very minimum, that is a subversion of the Constitution. A pre-emptive war based on what we knew was not a pressing need is not what this country stands for.

What I feel now is that I'm not retired. I still have a responsibility to do my part as a citizen to try and correct the problem.

IMO you should be proud of them, and they are a good part of the reason why US still function as good as it does.

[SlowwHand]

You tell them. I'm not saying a word. I could. Nazism has no place here.

[DinoDoc]

Originally posted by Zkribbler
To be more precise...

You didn't even read the post before yours did you?

[Dinner]

Originally posted by Dis
Although disbanding the military is pretty standard practice I'm sure. Only in hindsight can we see that did not help reduce opposition.

Is it really? I honestly don't know the history here but what happened after WW2? I know we disbanded Japan's military whole sale but what happened to the German military in both East and West Germany? I had thought, with no real evidence, that we just conducted "de-Nazification" then basically turned it into the West German military. Italy for sure didn't have it's military disbanded and I haven't a clue what the USSR did to the militaries of Eastern Europe.

[Dinner]

Re: Re: What's with all the military types 'speaking out'?

Originally posted by MichaeltheGreat
Those mother****ers who are still in the fight have a much higher level of motivation to their religious/tribal/nationalist/pan-arab fight than we do. They ain't quitting, and unless and until the Iraqi so-called government can get its **** together and solve internal problems, the fight will go on.

I agree with the over all thrust of your post. I really can't see what the Iraqi Government can really do though since by design the central government has very limited powers and due to the ethnic and religious make up of Iraq they are likely to always have weak coalition governments. EVERY nationality/group and many subgroups with in each major group has their own militia. The Iraqi National Army still doesn't have heavy equipment, and Air Force, or even it's own support units like logistics entirely due to American design.

Rumsfield didn't want the Iraqi Army to be able to act independently of the US so they engineered ways to insure it was dependent and couldn't turn on us. The problem is now that we have made them dependent we are whining that they're not independent. Kind of a problem of our own making.

[Dinner]

Originally posted by SlowwHand
What needs to happen is the president say, "Take Damascus. Call me when it's done". As an example.
This is what I want, it's up to you how you do it.

That's horrible leadership. Before any policy is decided the President needs to sit with the experts and figure out what is actually possible. Hitler would often make unrealistic orders like take Moscow in 3 weeks so any executive needs to first talk to experts to see what really can be done with existing forces and the existing political situation before making demands.

A better form of leadership would be something like this:

Pres: North Korea now has nukes. What should our response be?

Sec of State: Diplomatically we can do X to encourage them to dismantle their nukes.

Sec of Def: Militarially we can do Y but it might result in war with China resulting in Z unless we radically enlarge our military.

Adviser: Maybe we can try a multipronged approach of threatening Y while doing X and reaching out to China via W.

Pres: Good idea. That will be our approach.

[Arrian]

Re: What's with all the military types 'speaking out'?

Originally posted by Lancer
Often times its generals! Where is dicipline? By 'speaking out' they are making the mission that much more difficult. I though that was the job of the liberal media?

Next thing the top brass will be marching on Washington claiming the presidency, and the secret service will be trying to sell the job to senators. Rome II.

This is a steaming pile of crap, Lancer.

Do you actually believe this or was it merely a troll?

-Arrian

[Patroklos]

I honestly don't know the history here but what happened after WW2?

We disbanded the Wehrmacht wholesale, and the Germans went without a military until 1954.

The Soviets said they disbanded the Wehrmacht on their side, but they started rearmament almost immediatly.

The Iraqi National Army still doesn't have heavy equipment (FALSE), and Air Force (FALSE), or even it's own support units like logistics (FALSE) entirely due to American design (FALSE).

[Lancer]

Didn't Ho Chi Mign (sp) launch TET based not on the possibilty of victory on the battlefield but on the weakness of the US homefront? Every time there was an anti war protest or a listing of how many dead (Do any of our enemies ever go on their TV nightly with a body count of their own dead?) or anti war opinion piece from a 'news' anchor, we lost that war a little bit. However I don't recall the generals throwing in the towel while our guys were still in the fight. It just seems like we don't know how to win anymore. Is there a leader of the terrorists that is saying, look! If we keep this up they'll cave, here's the evidence...and shows the boys with their bomb vests, RPGs, and mines the good news. There has to be guys like that on the other side, they must have leaders, and we give them everything they need.

[Patroklos]

How many generals publicly denounced Roosevelt after Coral Sea and Kasserine Pass? Truman after the Pusan Perimeter or Chosin Reservoir? I can think of one, and he wasn’t hailed as a brave dissenter for speaking the absolute truth.

[Patroklos]

Wrong thread

[MikeH]

Originally posted by Oerdin

Pres: North Korea now has nukes.

Hawks: OMG! When we sold them to Pakistan we told them not to tell anyone else or pass it on. Those bastards.

[Imran Siddiqui]

Originally posted by Patroklos
How many generals publicly denounced Roosevelt after Coral Sea and Kasserine Pass? Truman after the Pusan Perimeter or Chosin Reservoir? I can think of one, and he wasn’t hailed as a brave dissenter for speaking the absolute truth.

Those were wars we didn't enter for bull**** reasons .

[DRoseDARs]

And besides, after 9/11 everything changed. Or something.