The reason I don't like radical feminists

[Shrapnel12]

I guess you guys win then because I don't think Pekka said they were not small, but they do irritate him. If I had to work with them like Pekka did though, I'd think it was something worth getting worked up over. And yes, I do read his posts. He makes more sense then others here.

[Arrian]

I haven't read his ramblings (I skim) in years. Perhaps I jumped the gun.

-Arrian

[Chemical Ollie]

In Swedish politics, the radical feminist have been setting the agenda for years. But that changed last year, when their craziness was revealed by a TV documentary. And of course by the fact that we got a conservative/liberal government instead of the former socialistic one (not that they are very different, though).

But their is still something called "Gender science" in some universities. That's the only "scientific" field where the researchers decide the answer before asking the questions.

[jkp1187]

Originally posted by Chemical Ollie
In Swedish politics, the radical feminist have been setting the agenda for years. But that changed last year, when their craziness was revealed by a TV documentary. And of course by the fact that we got a conservative/liberal government instead of the former socialistic one (not that they are very different, though).

But their is still something called "Gender science" in some universities. That's the only "scientific" field where the researchers decide the answer before asking the questions.

You obviously never took any classes in political science....

[Cort Haus]

Originally posted by Chemical Ollie
In Swedish politics, the radical feminist have been setting the agenda for years.

How can that be if they are only a tiny, insignificant minority? From what we are being told here, there can only be one or two of them in Sweden.

But their is still something called "Gender science" in some universities. That's the only "scientific" field where the researchers decide the answer before asking the questions.

In the "Gender Studies" course I was referring to earlier, at least it wasn't named as though the results had been measured in laboratory, but still, nothing was up for discussion. There was a right answer, and a wrong answer. Anyone questioning the orthodoxy was shouted down and ostricised. Good marks were given for reproducing the official opinions, and bad marks for examining any alternatives.

[Imran Siddiqui]

Really... radical feminists have been setting the agenda for years in Sweden?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mona_Sahlin

Sahlin has held various minister posts in Social Democratic cabinets from 1990 to 2006. She was elected new leader of the Social Democratic Party at an extra party congress on March 17, 2007, following the resignation of Göran Persson and the loss of government in the 2006 general election.[1] Should she succeed in leading the opposition to power, she will be the first female Prime Minister of Sweden.

So are the male Prime Ministers of Sweden selling out men to become second class citizens (as man-hating radical feminists apparently want to do)?

Or are we really NOT talking about man hating radical feminists being in charge of Sweden. I'm thinking its that one.

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Shrapnel12
Pekka is obviously complaining about a subset of the feminism movement that he does not like, but which has nothing to do with the rest of feminism.

Then you are stupid. He hasn't even provided any evidence that any of these feminists actually exist, in a sad attempt to lead people to believe that it's most of them.

[Aeson]

I have never met a radical feminist.[/statistically meaningless contribution]

[Wezil]

Originally posted by Aeson
I have never met a radical feminist.[/statistically meaningless contribution]

I have. The "man hating" part would be a stretch though.

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Aeson
I have never met a radical feminist.[/statistically meaningless contribution]

If you read the OP it seems clear that he's ranting against feminist in general (except conservative feminist and I don't know what those are), but later he said that it's just man-hating feminists.

What is a man-hating feminist I would like to know. Let's see one.

edit: oh and no need to repost the picture from the previous page. Please NO!

[Kidlicious]

This article makes this thread very clear.

Resisting Masculinity: The Importance Of Feminism To Men

By Robert Jensen

Feminists hate men. How do we know this? Because it is repeated over and over in the media and by right-wing politicians and other so-called guardians of the moral values of the society.

If feminists hate men, then it stands to reason that men should stay clear of -- or do their best to attack -- feminism and feminists.

I have been involved in feminist politics and scholarship for more than a dozen years. I have known a lot of feminists, many of them radical and many of them lesbians. One thing is true of all the feminists I have known:

None of them hated men.

These women want to hold men accountable for their behavior. They often are critical of patterns in male behavior, especially sexual behavior. They want to change society to eliminate men's violence. But none of them hated me. None of them hated men.

Why not? Because feminism is about the liberation of women, not hating men. And in the liberation of women, feminism offers men a shot at being human beings.

Although men often talk tough and try to be masculine in the way the culture defines it -- competitive, aggressive, dominant. But underneath all that, I believe that most men yearn for something less masculine and more human, for a different way to connect to others and be in the world.

I believe the best route to abandoning masculinity and claiming our humanity is feminism. Men can start by reading what feminists say about feminism. Marilyn Frye's essays on "Oppression" and "Sexism" in THE POLITICS OF REALITY are a good place to begin.

Read also what feminists have to say about men. Andrea Dworkin, a radical feminist writer and activist who has spent her life working against sexual violence, is often portrayed as the most man-hating of feminists.

But listen to what she said to, and about, men when she addressed a men's conference and asked them to work for 24 hours without rape. In her book LETTERS FROM A WAR ZONE, she writes:

"I don't believe rape is inevitable or natural. If I did, I would have no reason to be here. If I did, my political practice would be different than it is. Have you ever wondered why we are not just in armed combat against you? It's not because there's a shortage of kitchen knives in this country. It is because we believe in your humanity, against all the evidence."

Dworkin is called a man-hater not because she hates men but because such slurs are a way to marginalize her work. In that same speech, she went on to challenge men to take responsibility for themselves:

"[Women] do not want to do the work of helping you to believe in your humanity. We cannot do it anymore. We have always tried. We have been repaid with systematic exploitation and systematic abuse. You are going to have to do this yourselves from now on and you know it."

We do know it, and it is time to act on that knowledge, not just for women but for ourselves.

[Cort Haus]

AIUI, this is not about the principles of emancipation embodied by feminism in the broader sense. There are socialist feminists who make it quite clear that the historical demands of capital to enforce women into the role of tending to the family and reproducing labour is where the fault originally lies.

This is about a sub-set (and there has been a sub-debate about the extent of that subset) which go too far.

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Cort Haus
This is about a sub-set (and there has been a sub-debate about the extent of that subset) which go too far.

WTF?! "Going to far" What does that mean. Who is this sub-set? Prove that this isn't just a BS bash against feminists.

[Cort Haus]

I'm not going to drudge this entire thread picking up quotes to prove a point that has already been made.

You've already demonstrated that you are far more interested in setting up a straw man and attacking that, while claiming it to be the position of your opponents.

Seeing as my personal experiences have already been dismissed, there's little point me saying much of the politics of Rad Femmes that I have known personally, who, for example, believed that penetration was always a violation, and that the male sexual desire was fundamentally rapacious.

However, I have found some quotes that should illustrate what 'going too far' means. Of course you will continue to sneer and insult, but then I expect nothing else from you.

Coitus is punishment, I say. I am a feminist, not the fun kind. Coitus is the punishment for cowardice, for the fear of being alone.
Andrea Dworkin, 'Ice and Fire'

'Flag-flying is a blatantly sexist phallic ritual,' spokesman for the Women's Action Group, Mrs Di Cleary, said. 'The symbolism of raising and lowering the flag once a day is quite obvious.'
Evening Post, Wellington NZ

We now allow men to attend our seminars, but we do not allow them to ask questions. This seems to be a sensible solution because however well-meaning or feminist a man may be, he is still sexist because he is a man.
Letter to Times Educational Supplement

Of all the silent comedians Laurel and Hardy are perhaps the most threatening to women, as they combine the physical ruination with misogyny. One epicene and gross, the other emaciated. They are an aesthetic offence, with their disaster-prone bodies and the exclusive relationship that not only shuts out women but questions their very necessity.
Molly Haskell, 'From Reverence To Rape'

'Wigwam Bam' - One of the first feminist pop songs, telling the consciousness raising tale of how squaw Mini Ha Ha shed her culturally determined position of subservience and on the dominant role of predator with the joyous yell: 'Wigwam bam gonna make you my man!'
Eleanor Levy, Record Mirror

Every decision that a woman makes is right.
Germaine Greer, Danish TV interview

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Cort Haus
Seeing as my personal experiences have already been dismissed,

Well of course they have dillweed.

And I laugh at your quotes.