monk aggressors tear gassed in Burma

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by Chemical Ollie
There are unconfirmed rumours that the General of Burma has resigned and left the country (who would accept him in?). Also, the Internet and phone wires to Burma have been shut down.

At least in Sweden, there is a massive media campaign asking people to wear red clothing in symphaty for the monks.

It seems that the military has regained control for now (earlier today I heard speculation of a couple of hundred deaths, but no updates lately) by the expedient of virtually imprisoning the monks in their monasteries. How long can they do that? I assume the military thinks if they can do it for a while, the momentum of the protests will be lost. We shall see.

ASEAN has moved further in its statements than it has before. No movement is visible from China, and if casualties remain in the current range, the odds of that changing are indeed low. The Burmese regime has agreed to accept a UN envoy. We shall see what the results of that will be.

[lord of the mark]

The Scotsman reports this:

http://thescotsman.scotsman.com/international.cfm?id=1556922007

Im not sure what to make of it.

[lord of the mark]

as to whether the international community matters - that the regime is attempting to cut communication to the outside speaks for itself.

[lord of the mark]

there will be protest tomorrow in Brussels, Perth and Vancouver. I did not find out about todays protest in DC until too late, I will look for the next.

try this site for protests in your area, and other actions

http://www.uscampaignforburma.org/action/action.html

[DaShi]

Originally posted by molly bloom


Except when they invaded Viet Nam.

And Tibet.

And 'aided' North Korea.

All Chinese terrirtory.

[aneeshm]

Originally posted by lord of the mark
a dilemma for India as well.

read the whole thing

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/7013975.stm

We've basically stayed out of political problems there.

So we've helped the government AND the people by building infrastructure, such as roads and stuff, but we also helped people fleeing the country in '88.

I'd say this is the moment to act. If we, right now, declare that we are strongly pro-democracy, and actually ACT and threaten to invade if this crap doesn't stop (and do it if necessary), it may piss off China and the Burmese Junta a hell of a lot, but it will accomplish three tremendously important things:

a) China will be MASSIVELY contained, and not just that, but will lose a HELL of a lot of face (they'll be seen as "teh evil oppressors", we as "The Glorious Saviours of the Burmese People").
b) Our image on the world stage will turn, in one instant, from wuss to major ass-kicker
c) A neighbouring democratic country whose people hate China and Communism, and are not Muslim, is always a fantastic plus

And, of course, we'll bring democracy to the people and all that.

[DaShi]

Just make sure you have an exit strategy.

[aneeshm]

Originally posted by GePap


When you can show that acting based on respecting human rights increases GDP as much or more than acting based on purely economic interests this might change....

It does. In the really, really long run, it really does.

But who will bell the cat?

[Wezil]

aneeshm - What are the odds that India would act in such a way? (Seriously, no troll).

[aneeshm]

Originally posted by Wezil
aneeshm - What are the odds that India would act in such a way? (Seriously, no troll).

Zilch.

I mean it. The people ruling at the centre are a coalition divided against itself, and there is no way anything like this (or anything at all) can happen.

All Indians lament the many chances we had to solve the Kashmir problem, all of which we wasted.

Now, I see this GOLDEN chance being wasted before my very eyes, for petty political reasons.

[aneeshm]

Originally posted by DaShi
Just make sure you have an exit strategy.

Don't worry.

First of all, if we do anything, it'll actually be with the support of the people (unlike the other thing you probably are referencing). We will be welcomed with open arms, the way we were in Bangladesh.

Secondly, the country already has a democratic framework to build upon. The only thing we have to do is to strengthen the already existing institutions so that they can survive on their own, instead of building them from scratch. Also, this being an Indic culture, they are already inherently democratic. And of course, our presence in the neighbourhood will probably act as a stabilising influence in itself, even after we have left.

[Wezil]

The problem here is just plain apathy (wrt to China as was discussed earlier). While you can always find decent, intelligent people that truly do give a damn about human rights, the vast majority either know nothing (and don't want to know) or don't care enough one way or the other. "It's a long way away and I have dinner to make before helping my kids with homework..."

I've heard the current Burma situation mentioned only once in my day to day activities over the last week.

[BeBMan]

But what could "normal" people do anyway, other than maybe doing demonstrations or so, which I doubt would be helpful against a die-hard military junta that rather wants to kill its people before allowing changes....

[Wezil]

Individually, not much. They can however choose to make these issues important at election time so the governments of the west will actually have a political incentive to do something to compete with the economic incentive of doing nothing.

Would this have stopped what's happening now? Maybe not, but it may have put China in a position to be less supportive of the regime or perhaps put India in a better public position to do something. Who knows?

[aneeshm]

I checked the Wiki article on the culture of Burma. Major points that stuck out:

1) Their religion is Indic (Theravada Buddhism)
2) Their culture is Indic in nature - it's blindingly obvious
3) Their national epic is a version of the Ramayana
4) They celebrate Diwali
5) Their societal institutions are also Indic in nature and spirit, and still continue their role better than they do now in India (the Buddhist (or Brahminical, in other instances) order as a catalyst of change, and something to rally behind against an unjust state - an India idea as old as the hills (doesn't matter which order, it just has to be something held in high regard))
6) Their language is Indic-influenced
7) Their script is a derivative of a South Indian script





The country is a part of Greater India, and has been since the beginning, when Indic culture gave the country a "quick start".

For the love of God, what more does the government need! Do something already! We have the forces, we have the ability, and this is something NOBODY can oppose us on.

Till now, we were weak, and could do nothing. But as the heartland, we have a duty to these people. Now that we have the ability, we will betray ourselves and our ideals if we sit by and meekly see this horror continue. As heartlanders, and as the only ones who have power to enact positive change, this time without any loss to ourselves, we will be traitors to our culture and our people if we do not act now (yes, I consider all the people of Greater India my people, and their welfare is, in the long run, our welfare).