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  • Originally posted by Berzerker
    He did it early in '33, not the middle of our worst economic downturn, but go right ahead and tell us how FDR saved us from the worst effects of the Depression by banning constitutional money.
    IIRC, The Great Depression was still around in 1933.

    And as Wikipedia states:

    Those who believe that the Great Depression could have been avoided if the Federal Reserve had acted are not aware of the fact that the Federal Reserve could not act.[citation needed] At that time the amount of credit that the Federal Reserve could issue was limited due to laws which required partial gold backing of that credit. By the late 1920's the Federal Reserve had almost hit the limit of allowable credit that could be backed by the gold in its possession. This credit was in the form of Federal Reserve demand notes. Since a "promise of gold" is not as good as "gold in the hand", during the bank panics a portion of those demand notes were redeemed for Federal Reserve gold. Since the Federal Reserve had hit its limit on allowable credit, any reduction in gold in its vaults had to be accompanied by a greater reduction in credit.




    In order to expand the monetary supply (instead of having it contracted), the government would have had to bought more gold under the gold standard ideals.

    Also you can look at the reason Britain abandoned the gold standard in WW1, in the first place. Because they needed to fund the war and couldn't when notes were backed by specie. Meaning that the gold standard is incredibly inflexible and if Britain hadn't abandoned it, there is a possibility that it wouldn't have been able to defend France as it did.

    Of course, then Britain felt it needed to go back to the gold standard which caused all sorts of problems:

    One reason for the monetary inflation was to help Great Britain, which, in the 1920s, was struggling with its plans to return to the gold standard at pre-war (World War I) parity. Returning to the gold standard at this rate meant that the British economy was facing deflationary pressure.[8] According to Rothbard, the lack of price flexibility in Britain meant that unemployment shot up, and the American government was asked to help. The United States was receiving a net inflow of gold and inflated further in order to help Britain return to the gold standard. Montagu Norman, head of the Bank of England, had an especially good relationship with Benjamin Strong, the de facto head of the Federal Reserve. Norman pressured the heads of the central banks of France and Germany to inflate as well, but unlike Strong, they refused.[9] Rothbard says American inflation was meant to allow Britain to inflate as well, because under the gold standard, Britain could not inflate on its own.


    (same source as prior quote)

    Rothbard being, of course, the Austrian school economist, Murray Rothbard.

    Not saying the Fed wasn't to blame, but on the same token, it's hard to really "expand the money supply" (which is the monetarist charge) when you have to back notes with gold.
    “I give you a new commandment, that you love one another. Just as I have loved you, you also should love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.”
    - John 13:34-35 (NRSV)

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    • Originally posted by Berzerker
      The Fed was in existence, and the Fed was in control of money supply, and the Fed screwed up. Gold didn't cause the market crash or the Depression
      The fed screwed up because they had a screwed up POV. They didn't expand the money supply when they should have. You will go on and on about how they contracted it, but that part isn't how they screwed it up. The fed often makes mistakes like that, but it doesn't cause a depression. The fed ****ed up because they were on the gold standard and they didn't believe in expanding the money supply to prevent a depression. The stupid idiots had an Austrian School mentality. They actually thought it was a good thing that banks were failing.
      I drank beer. I like beer. I still like beer. ... Do you like beer Senator?
      - Justice Brett Kavanaugh

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      • FYI, wiki isn't a source in and of itself and it doesn't help when the wiki quote used contains the words citation needed.
        I make no bones about my moral support for [terrorist] organizations. - chegitz guevara
        For those who aspire to live in a high cost, high tax, big government place, our nation and the world offers plenty of options. Vermont, Canada and Venezuela all offer you the opportunity to live in the socialist, big government paradise you long for. –Senator Rubio

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        • Originally posted by aneeshm
          And the beauty of nutcase physics is that you can create free energy.
          Keynesian monetary policy in what is used everywhere in the world. The gold standard is a proven failure and is always abandoned when it stops working. Keynesian policy replaces it.

          You are the nutcases and you live in a fantasy world void of facts.
          I drank beer. I like beer. I still like beer. ... Do you like beer Senator?
          - Justice Brett Kavanaugh

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          • Originally posted by aneeshm


            Which of these "stable, if not rich" societies would you prefer to live in, Aggie, compared to where you are now?
            If you can't think of anything cleaver to say just try to start a com/cap debate, eh?
            I drank beer. I like beer. I still like beer. ... Do you like beer Senator?
            - Justice Brett Kavanaugh

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            • Originally posted by DinoDoc
              FYI, wiki isn't a source in and of itself and it doesn't help when the wiki quote used contains the words citation needed.
              It makes a fairly obvious point. The "citation needed" doesn't bother me, because anyone realizes that with a gold standard expanding the money supply means you have to acquire more gold, to back up the credit or bank notes.
              “I give you a new commandment, that you love one another. Just as I have loved you, you also should love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.”
              - John 13:34-35 (NRSV)

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              • Originally posted by Kidicious

                Keynesian monetary policy in what is used everywhere in the world. The gold standard is a proven failure and is always abandoned when it stops working. Keynesian policy replaces it.
                What, exactly, is "failure" supposed to mean in this context?

                That it doesn't allow the state to spend arbitrarily, but only what it gets directly from taxes?

                And let me tell you this: Keynesian policy failed in India. It failed so miserably that we're going in the opposite direction now.

                Hell, the most charismatic leader of the Communist party in India actually favours reforms towards a freer market, because he has realised that his former policies didn't work.

                Originally posted by Kidicious

                You are the nutcases and you live in a fantasy world void of facts.
                Why do you always descend to this level? My judgement of your ideas is not a judgement of you. And I don't even really judge any longer, I simply say that they don't work. That's all, TBH.

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                • Originally posted by aneeshm
                  What, exactly, is "failure" supposed to mean in this context?
                  If already stated two reasons why the gold standard fails. They are conected actually. 1) It causes depression 2) It causes currency speculation on expectations of depression or the need to abandon it
                  That it doesn't allow the state to spend arbitrarily, but only what it gets directly from taxes?
                  Balanced budget mentality is also a problem with non-Keynesian thought.
                  And let me tell you this: Keynesian policy failed in India. It failed so miserably that we're going in the opposite direction now.
                  That's not the policy I'm talking about. Keynes never advocated that.
                  Why do you always descend to this level? My judgement of your ideas is not a judgement of you. And I don't even really judge any longer, I simply say that they don't work. That's all, TBH.
                  You compared me to a nutcase.
                  I drank beer. I like beer. I still like beer. ... Do you like beer Senator?
                  - Justice Brett Kavanaugh

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                  • Originally posted by aneeshm
                    And the beauty of nutcase physics is that you can create free energy.
                    Unlike nutcase physics, Keynsian economics have actually demonstrated recoveries. So, you're the loon.

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                    • Originally posted by aneeshm

                      Which of these "stable, if not rich" societies would you prefer to live in, Aggie, compared to where you are now?
                      Cuba.

                      But any society would be preferable to a Libertarian one, which was my actual point that you didn't address.
                      Only feebs vote.

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                      • Originally posted by Kidicious

                        You compared me to a nutcase.
                        No, I compared the attempt to create value out of nothing to the attempt to create energy out of nothing.

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                        • Originally posted by Agathon

                          Cuba.
                          How many attempts have you made to migrate there?

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                          • Originally posted by aneeshm


                            No, I compared the attempt to create value out of nothing to the attempt to create energy out of nothing.
                            "And the beauty of nutcase physics is that you can create free energy. "
                            I drank beer. I like beer. I still like beer. ... Do you like beer Senator?
                            - Justice Brett Kavanaugh

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                            • Originally posted by Kidicious


                              "And the beauty of nutcase physics is that you can create free energy. "

                              Perfectly correct.

                              Where's the problem? The "nutcase" qualifier is applied to the theories of physics which propound such ideas.

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                              • Originally posted by aneeshm



                                Perfectly correct.

                                Where's the problem? The "nutcase" qualifier is applied to the theories of physics which propound such ideas.
                                Theories aren't nutcases, people are. Just let it go. Discuss the topic.
                                I drank beer. I like beer. I still like beer. ... Do you like beer Senator?
                                - Justice Brett Kavanaugh

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