There is something seriously wrong with law enforcement....

[PLATO]

Originally posted by Wiglaf
A serious problem with law enforcement: cops not protecting people, cops beating/killing/wounding people.

A 7 hour misunderstanding like this that will result in a hefty settlement? Not exactly a big concern.

I certainly stand by statement and am appalled that the intentional abuse of a citizen by depriving them of their freedom through the proactive action of law enforcement is "not exactly a big concern" is the position of anybody.

When we begin to let our personal vigilence of the freedom we have earned began to wane, then so will that freedom.

There is no abuse of citizens by government that is "not exactly a big concern". They all are. Everyone we let slide is one step closer to losing our individual freedoms.

Now, some may say that some individual freedoms may be let go for the collective good. That is certainly debatable...although I would certainly question its merit. This case is not one. If the facts are as stated in the article, then this is pure abuse of government power and the abusers should pay dearly.

[Wezil]

It's just Wiggie. Name says it all.

[Asmodean]

LOL - Wiglaf is just being his obnoxious self.

But okay...for the benefit of Wiglaf, let me suggest another thread title:

There is something a little bit off, with the Chicago PD

Better, Wiggy??

Asmodean

[Wiglaf]

There is no abuse of citizens by government that is "not exactly a big concern". They all are. Everyone we let slide is one step closer to losing our individual freedoms.

How absurd is this. One error by a police department that is in no way systemic (and will be remedied via lawsuit) is not the same as surrendering a general liberty. Find another cause to gripe over.

But okay...for the benefit of Wiglaf, let me suggest another thread title:

There is something a little bit off, with the Chicago PD

Better, Wiggy??

[Colonâ„¢]

Re: There is something seriously wrong with law enforcement....

Originally posted by Asmodean

I mean for crying out loud, why can't they just admit on the spot that they've made a mistake, offer their excuses and let the family go

What mistake? Allowing an undercover cop to invite herself into a car appears to be a crime from their POV, and that's exactly what took place.

[Shrapnel12]

I'm actually gonna side with Wiggie on this one, though not a 100%. Plato, I would understand your outrage if the gentleman who was arrested was still in jail and was being actively prosecuted for the crime, but the charges were rather quickly dismissed. This is hardly a miscarriage of justice.

On the other hand, this is imo an example of overzealous enforcement of the law. Definitely entrapment and definitely is a legitimate cause for a lawsuit. I do hope those responsible are disciplined (not sure if they should be fired though). I agree it is a problem, even a serious one (that is should be taken serious I mean), but it is not a problem on the same level as other examples of police and prosecutorial corruption. I'd much rather be in Chicago then in Durham, NC for example.

[PLATO]

Originally posted by Shrapnel12
I'm actually gonna side with Wiggie on this one, though not a 100%. Plato, I would understand your outrage if the gentleman who was arrested was still in jail and was being actively prosecuted for the crime, but the charges were rather quickly dismissed. This is hardly a miscarriage of justice.

On the other hand, this is imo an example of overzealous enforcement of the law. Definitely entrapment and definitely is a legitimate cause for a lawsuit. I do hope those responsible are disciplined (not sure if they should be fired though). I agree it is a problem, even a serious one (that is should be taken serious I mean), but it is not a problem on the same level as other examples of police and prosecutorial corruption. I'd much rather be in Chicago then in Durham, NC for example.

Typically this type of action by a police department is indicative of a policy toward getting the arrest regardless of the facts. I doubt that any rational person would believe that they just accidentally decided to arrest this man with his wife in the car and his daughter nearby after they flagged him down. That would be absurd to believe.

However, I do agree that there are worse things that police departments and prosecutors could do. That does not in any way lessen the severity of this type of action by police. Further, if the department really feels that they made an honest error, then why do they continue to deny this person their vehicle back and why do they continue to try to extort $4700 from him? IMO, this is a sign of a deeper problem.

Originally posted by Wiglaf

How absurd is this. One error by a police department that is in no way systemic (and will be remedied via lawsuit) is not the same as surrendering a general liberty. Find another cause to gripe over.

Once again, to assume that this was just an accident and not an expression of this police force's operational methods is what is absurd here. Surely this will be "remedied" via a lawsuit, but it should never have occured in the first place! The fundamental deterorization of respect for individual liberty is clearly shown by the Chicago PD here...as it is by various other PDs across the nation. Police are now being trained that every person they come in contact with is an adversary and that they should be wary. That is simply not the case. They need to be trained on who they work for and the rights those people have.

[Wiglaf]

Typically this type of action by a police department is indicative of a policy toward getting the arrest regardless of the facts.

I doubt the department has this policy, since as we'll see, it will end up costing them a ton of money (just in this one case). I guess they aren't getting their $4,000 back because of red tape or some guy trying to hold onto his job. They'll get it eventually, plus quite a bit of interest.

There is a system of checks that will take care of this problem and discourage it from happening again. Relax.

[Shrapnel12]

If this was indicative of their policy as you say, then I would think this guy would still be in jail. The prosecutors would most likely be on board. If the charges are just going to get dropped, why would the PD just spin their wheels like that?

Also it's only natural that they won't admit their wrong even if they know they are. Releasing the car would be like admitting they are wrong. They will stall and delay until the lawsuit is decided. Just like anyone who stands to lose a lot of money would.

[PLATO]

Originally posted by Shrapnel12
If this was indicative of their policy as you say, then I would think this guy would still be in jail. The prosecutors would most likely be on board. If the charges are just going to get dropped, why would the PD just spin their wheels like that?

No, not necessarily. There are checks and balances at work here. That does not excuse the problem. For there to be "overzealous" enforcement is an example of police prejudice, not necessarily system wide failure. To just let it go as an isolated incident is to, in fact, encourage its repetition. There will be some hands slapped...the government will fork over some cash...then some police officer will soon feel the pressure again for his sting operation to bear fruit and the abuse will continue....

Originally posted by Shrapnel12
Also it's only natural that they won't admit their wrong even if they know they are. Releasing the car would be like admitting they are wrong. They will stall and delay until the lawsuit is decided. Just like anyone who stands to lose a lot of money would.

This is not some individual! This is our government that we have entrusted with extraordinary powers to ensure the safety of the public! It is ridiculous that they would not be held accountable to admitting their mistake and immediately doing what they can to rectify the situation. I would imagine that the "lot of money" that they will lose (which is actually the Chicago taxpayer, btw...not the individuals responsible) would be less if they had immediately issued an apology and released the man's property. Instead, we accept their continued abuse of a citizen because the courts will make it alright? That's crap.

[BlackCat]

Originally posted by Lorizael


His wife was in the car and his daughter was nearby. Did he need the whore that badly?

The wifey part I understand, but what are you suggesting with the daughter part ?

[PLATO]

Originally posted by Wiglaf


I doubt the department has this policy, since as we'll see, it will end up costing them a ton of money (just in this one case). I guess they aren't getting their $4,000 back because of red tape or some guy trying to hold onto his job. They'll get it eventually, plus quite a bit of interest.

There is a system of checks that will take care of this problem and discourage it from happening again. Relax.

Yes, the man "will be made whole". That makes it all okay? That's just wrong. The individuals involved will get what? A "Don't do it again" lecture? The taxpayers of Chicago will pay dearly for their "mistake"...one they continue to exacerbate with the holding of this man's assets. The individuals should be held accountable for the abuse of the power they have been granted by the citizens. Further, these individuals should be required to complete training on what the rights of the people they supposedly serve are.

[Kuciwalker]

I agree with PLATO here. This is just the first time the policeman was caught making up bogus charges.

[Wiglaf]

Originally posted by PLATO


Yes, the man "will be made whole". That makes it all okay? That's just wrong. The individuals involved will get what? A "Don't do it again" lecture? The taxpayers of Chicago will pay dearly for their "mistake"...one they continue to exacerbate with the holding of this man's assets. The individuals should be held accountable for the abuse of the power they have been granted by the citizens. Further, these individuals should be required to complete training on what the rights of the people they supposedly serve are.

Wow. You do realize people are arrested, tried, and sentenced (sometimes to death) for things they didn't even do?

Our justice system has bigger problems than a guy looking like he picked up a hooker getting 8 hours of detention. It's just funny you're flipping out over the small fry.

[Wiglaf]

There will be some hands slapped...the government will fork over some cash...then some police officer will soon feel the pressure again for his sting operation to bear fruit and the abuse will continue....

People who are detained, especially in suspicious circumstances like this hooker man, are less of a problem than the judicial system. It doesn't frighten me that this guy was detained for a few hours. It's scarier that people are often convicted for rape/murder/etc without convincing evidence.