God question/rant

[Kidlicious]

Re: Re: Re: Re: God question/rant

Originally posted by Elok


You see now the consequences of unbelief...

That you will spend an enternity with the devil? Nothing could be clearer now what that will be like.

[Wezil]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: God question/rant

Originally posted by Kidicious


That you will spend an enternity with the devil? Nothing could be clearer now what that will be like.

I'm not sure if you are referring to your ex-wife or this thread. Either way -

[Kidlicious]

[Wezil]

Arguing with religious nutters is the atheist equivalent of hell IMHO.

[Elok]

So why start threads for that purpose? Intellectual S&M

[Dr Strangelove]

It's the electronic eqivalent of playground bullying.

[lord of the mark]

Re: Re: Re: God question/rant

Originally posted by BeBro


In case of the OP it was also a VERY serious one

well then, my midrash is a very serious answer, in the manner of a Zen Koan.

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Dr Strangelove
It's the electronic eqivalent of playground bullying.

I don't mean to bully people. I was just trying to make a point. We are judge according to what we believe. Doesn't that imply that if we aren't Christians that we are stupid? That's the way that I've always taken it. I don't see why we can't go there.

[Robert]

Well, since he's all powerfull he could have made it understandable, or he could have made us smarter.

Sure, but apparantly he didn't care about that.
He wanted us to be smart enough to understand the creation itself, not the creation of the creation.

And you forgot about the second part. We are suppose to believe it anyway.

No. You're not supposed to believe it.
You're supposed to believe in (have faith in, trust) Jesus.
It says nowhere in the Bible that you have to believe that God created heaven and earth, or you'll go to hell.

John 3:16 reads:
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

It doesn't read:
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him and who believes that God created the world (in 7 days) should not perish, but have everlasting life.

Neither does it say:
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him and in a global flood should not perish, but have everlasting life.

Or:
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him and in the fact that he walked on wather should not perish, but have everlasting life.

You guys have no clue about the original greek/hebrew word for 'believe'. It's not 'believe that', it's 'believe in'.
The Greek word 'pistos', which is mostly translated with 'believe' would be better translated in 'trust' in our days.

It's more 'believe' as you believe in your wife, in example. It's not like 'I believe my wife exists' but I believe that she can make me happy and she's the one for me.

Why did God give man an ego? And why aren't we just tons more intelligent?

1. Man took that ego themselves (when we chosed to be gods)
2. We are pretty intelligent!

Why do we think that God is a white man?

We do?

organized religion is still a way to control the stupid people.

Organized religion, as in the roman catholic church, or organised Islam, etc. is a human invention.
The Bible nowhere asks us to create a church like that.
It's a human thing to build up hierarchy, to create traditions.

The Bible fights all that.
Jesus says 'call nobody lord, because you have only one lord and call nobody father, because you have only one father in heaven'.
And what does the protestant church I'm a part of? We call our ministers 'dominee' which from the latin word 'dominus' which means 'lord'.
And in the Roman Catholic Church they call the pope the 'holy father', while Jesus clearly said to do not.

You are right, that organised religion is human and fallable. But it's all we have. We are stupid people and we do stupid things. Let's make the best of it.

Seriously, though, if there is a God, why wouldn't he/she want us to choose rationally. The Bible tells us that we should have faith, and not make the rational choice.

No.
My choise is both rational and emotional.

Rationally I see that the message of the Bible is true.
The Bible says that the root of all problems is mans choise to be 'god' himself, deciding over good and evil themselves.

That's the root of the problem. We all want to be our own little god, and we don't want others to intervene with our decisions. We all want the best, but we fail to deliver it, and in the end we get this world with wars, fights, murdering and pain. We cause pain.

I cause pain. My decisions, with the best intentions, oftenly lead to evil. I hurt people by what I say, even when I want to comfort them. I step on toes, literally and figurative. Not by intention, but I am a cause of pain.

I may do good as well, but I do also cause pain.
If this world would be perfect, and I would be in it as I am right now, then I would make this world imperfect. And all my good cannot undo my wrongs. Like if I had killed someones wife, I could not undo that by giving him 100000000 dollar or wash his car 10 times a week.

That's what the Bible teaches me: you wanna be good, you wanna do it yourself, but you can't.
And if I look at myself, then that's true.
I can't find the truth in myself, and I have faith that I can find it in Jesus, who did live the perfect life, and died for my wrongs.
He can renew me, so I can live on the perfect (new) world that is to come.

It's both rationally and emotionally.

If we don't believe that God is like that then we are suppose to believe that we will be sent to hell (seperated from God). Well, if we are seperated from God right now, then how is that a bad thing?

No, it's not about 'believing in the existance of God'.
The question is: do you want to be your own god, or do you accept God as your god?
Who's the authority in your life? Do you think that you can make the right decisions, and live the perfect life? Do you not need God to be good?

That's the question.
It's not if God exists or not. It's not about Santa Claus.

And no, we are not seperated from God right now.
Eventhough some live as if they are seperated from him.

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by CyberShy

You're supposed to believe in (have faith in, trust) Jesus.

Yes, well many people do not. Why? Hopefully, you will not say free will. That's not what I'm getting at. Why did God create us the way that he did, with certain abilities and inabilities, and provide us with certain information, so that we will not believe in Jesus.

[Robert]

The first question is one everybody can answer: do you believe in yourself.

I think that people who answer that question with 'no', and who search for help, will find mercy in Gods eyes.

Why God didn't make it 'easier' for us?
I don't know. It's sometimes a difficult question for me as well.

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by CyberShy
The first question is one everybody can answer: do you believe in yourself.

I think that people who answer that question with 'no', and who search for help, will find mercy in Gods eyes.

I don't disbelieve in God, just all religions. I can accept that God has reasons for things and that he is good. Beyond that, I don't believe that God communicates with me.

As far as Christianity goes, hell is suppose to be seperation from God. Since I don't believe in a personal relationship with God, that doesn't mean much to me.

[Straybow]

lotm