More Apple pwnage

[Pekka]

MarkG, Yes. Means very little.

[Agathon]

Originally posted by Pekka
So you think I'm a Nokia fanboy? I guess you haven't followed what I keep saying about Nokia in the past. My mind hasn't changed. Fast recap: I don't like Nokia, period. I like Samsung.

So your analysis is totally incorrect.

My apologies... although my comment wasn't entirely serious. Samsung is indeed a fine company. My own phone is a Samsung; not by choice, but because it was given to me by the college. I hardly use it, since I don't really like telephones much.

However, you're showing signs of Apple fanboy mentality. That's a joke as well. Especially since Nokia IS superior to Apple AND iPhone. iPhone AND the future models for a loooong time, in all levels and depths, except US marketing (then again it has better marketing outside US) or design, by which I mean plastic covers.

The iPhone has not been released outside of the US. I've made very few claims about it. The only indisputable claim, as far as I can see, is that the multitouch interface is the future of mobile devices like this. Plastic keyboards and single touch interfaces (with or without a stylus) have been rendered obsolete by the multitouch interface, just as the command line interface was rendered obsolete by the original Macintosh.

At present, only Apple has a multitouch phone. LG has a similar looking device, but it's not multitouch. If you look back at what I wrote, I said that it will be very hard to buy a decent phone without a multitouch interface in years to come. Whether such a device is likely to be made by Apple cannot be foreseen.

I talked about Nokia because the quote MarG talked about Nokia. I thought the comparison doesn't have any value. So for you to accuse me of "phone nationalism" is weak.

By the way, the Finns suck at hockey. Sweden FTW!!!

Now, choose an aspect, any kind of measure, and let's compare.. Apple, iPhone, Nokia and smartphones of Nokia. Can you bring up a category where any of your company wins or even comes close to? No? If so, then why are you accusing me of being phone nationalist and that being not a sign of you being Apple fanboy instead?

Wins in what way? I think the iPhone beats every other phone with respect to its revolutionary user interface. That's a widely shared sentiment. Nokia has nothing to compare to that, since AFAIK they don't have a multitouch phone, and they certainly don't have things like a dynamically predictive software keyboard, and other such features.

As for success in the marketplace, we will have to wait and see. We do know that Apple sold 270,000 phones in the first day and a half. That's a matter of public record. They've also said they will sell their millionth phone this month. That's about it: the rest is mere speculation.

As for the iPhone price discount, we really have no certain knowledge of why they did it. My own guess is that they had to do it to coincide with the release of the multitouch iPod, since it would cannibalize iPhone sales if the former remained a $600 device. That makes the most sense, since the discount appeared right at the same time the iPod Touch did.

It's not unheard of to discount newish phones by less than 10% (which is what the iPhone discount was when you take into account the contract).

[Asher]

Originally posted by Pekka
MarkG, Yes. Means very little.

Especially considering initial offerings of highly hyped devices are hardly characteristic of subsequent sales.

[Agathon]

Originally posted by MarkG

grabbing 1.2 per cent of the US mobile phone market share in total.

does it mean very little to get 1% of any US market in a single month for a company with zero history in that market?

Apparently, only if you're an Apolyton poster with an insane jealousy towards Apple Inc.

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Pekka
So they have to make a killing in order to continue succesfully and not be marginalized in the near future, a risk they are facing with the first product, because obviously it has already costed a looot of money.

I think they financed this from operations. The cost involved here is nothing Apple can't handle. That said they may decide to put their investment somewhere else.

[MarkG]

Apparently this very little thing is Apple's goal

"Exactly what we're trying to do, 1% market share in 2008, 10 million units and we'll go from there."

http://www.engadget.com/2007/01/09/live-from-macworld-2007-steve-jobs-keynote/

[Asher]

Originally posted by Agathon
The iPhone has not been released outside of the US. I've made very few claims about it. The only indisputable claim, as far as I can see, is that the multitouch interface is the future of mobile devices like this. Plastic keyboards and single touch interfaces (with or without a stylus) have been rendered obsolete by the multitouch interface, just as the command line interface was rendered obsolete by the original Macintosh.

Uh. The Macintosh was not the first GUI. The iPhone is not the first multitouch interface.

But that's neither here nor there. There are major problems with the multi-touch interface when used as a keyboard. It's provably slower and less efficient, half as fast as Blackberry keyboards. Interfaces are there to be fast and efficient, not clunky like the current iPhone keyboard. It's better than T9 cellphone input, but it's nothing compared to a tactile keyboard which provides genuine accuracy.

You're in Canada. You've not even used the interface. You're a very well-known Apple fanatic, so your comments on this matter are as worthless. It's a unique feature of Apple, so it's The Best Ever. In the real world, iPhone uptake is not meeting the hype. The keyboard is getting mixed reviews at best, and the positive reviews come from users such as yourself who LOVE LOVE LOVE it without even having to use it.

It's not unheard of to discount newish phones by less than 10% (which is what the iPhone discount was when you take into account the contract).

NONSENSE. You are fooling no one. iPhones are not the only phones bought with a contract, and this is also not how the price is perceived by the public.

[Asher]

Originally posted by Agathon
Apparently, only if you're an Apolyton poster with an insane jealousy towards Apple Inc.

What's insane is your loyalty and unabashed ability to shill. Look at the title of this thread and the contents of the original post. It reads just like a cheerleader's post, and that's exactly what it is.

It's not that everyone is "jealous" of Apple (people are so jealous of Apple, its stock has dropped every single day since the "Apple pwnage" in the keynote). It's that you're taking PR at face value and not asking any questions. Investors are smarter than that, so are most people here.

You've got a bizarre obsession with Apple that clouds your judgement. You can call me a poster with an insane jealousy towards Apple, but I do own an iPod and I'm actually typing this on a MacBook Pro (running Vista, though).

It's time to snap back to reality. The iPhone is not the BEST PHONE EVER. It's lacking basic features, even. It's not even 3G. It was massively overpriced due to Apple's miscalculation of the marketplace, which they are trying to correct.

It is indeed unprecedented, and indeed not normal, to drop a phone's price by 33% weeks after its debut. This isn't even a point of contention. But I am amused by your "total lifetime cost" excuses, they're a bit creative (and a lot desperate).

[Agathon]

Originally posted by MarkG
Apparently this very little thing is Apple's goal

"Exactly what we're trying to do, 1% market share in 2008, 10 million units and we'll go from there."

http://www.engadget.com/2007/01/09/l...-jobs-keynote/

Yes, how dare they not attempt to meet the inflated expectations of Apolyton Windows fanbois@!!!ioneone

[Wiglaf]

It's stupid to say that it's only 10% off the "total price." This ignores that it is easier to pay $200 over 2 years than on one day.

[Pekka]

For the record, Sweden is good at hockey but they still suck at it, FACT. This is why Toronto sucks also, with Mats Sundin and all that.

OK, but I'm just glad you don't think I idolize Nokia. I definitely don't do that . But I have lots of experience with it, the company. It has state of the art processes, very good strategies, capacity and production and of course sales. So business wise they're the top dog and others have to keep up, however that doesn't mean I actually like them personally. I have lots of issues with them, more than just their phones!

And believe me, they can blame themselves for eating their own profits in the US. Their design STILL sucks. Some of the N-series is OK, but other than that, they look horrible. This has been a problem for them for years, and they still can't shake it off. Why? Everyone knows and I mean everyone, that you have to have it working for you in the US market. We know Americans like their flip phones and whatnot, so you make them for the market. Yes? It took them years to actualyl start implementing what the market is demanding and they were totally underestimating US market in this regard.

Not only that, but it reflects on the perception of their QUALITY. Quality meaning failures and failing components and whatnot. Americans percieve Nokia phones as ones with the lowest quality, when in fact this isn't the case, not even close. It does well in quality charts, the ones that actually measure the real quality, but the perception is important, it affects the actual sales. So... .their denial about the ugly design tradition has simply lead to perception of poor quality as well, and that's something you don't want to have for no reason at all.

Fortunately for them, US market isn't very important globally. It is important, but ... not that important. They're just now startign to push themselves in there again, so talk about years of idle stupidity. So this is the US story, but those aren't even the issues I really have with the company, because they're more personal.

But this is to say that even market leaders are making grave mistakes with things that seem quite obvious. I do not accept the notion that "Apple has hired experts and they wouldn't make a simple mistake". Underestimating the market is a constant problem with companies who have fell in love with themselves.

ANd yes, I'm a Samsung man myself. Technology wise? Excellent. Innovation? Excellent, perhaps the best. And these guys release _early_, I like that, it forces competitors to push their own schedules between R&D and test manufacturing. It pushes the competition technology wise, Samsung puts the heat on!

Plus they go Asia as their playing grounds, and they like to try these new things and adopt them fast, so it's ideal for them. I like Samsung, what can I say.... They won't be the dominating company but that's cool with me, they still come up with good products

Yeah, I realize it's only being released in US, but I don't think US market is that important, it doesn't make a company a player, but it can break a smaller newbie. I'm saying I don't like their chances outside US because of the lacking features such as 3G, whcih is expected in phones in that price range.

And no, I don't think it has anything revolutionary in it.

But just to give you a bone, I like their R&D, I think they have more of that 70s Xerox style of R&D. So I think they'll be able to come up with something good in the future, but right now? I dont' think they have anything revolutionary.

[Asher]

Originally posted by Agathon
Yes, how dare they not attempt to meet the inflated expectations of Apolyton Windows fanbois@!!!ioneone

You think the high expectations were from Windows fanboys?

I think it's far more likely that the high expectations were from the people who make threads entitled "More Apple pwnage" and talk about how the iPhone and its interface are the best ever. For such a quality device, 1% of sales in the most hyped up month is a bit of a disappointment...

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Asher
NONSENSE. You are fooling no one. iPhones are not the only phones bought with a contract, and this is also not how the price is perceived by the public.

Huh? People don't consider the price of the contract?

[Agathon]

Originally posted by Wiglaf
It's stupid to say that it's only 10% off the "total price." This ignores that it is easier to pay $200 over 2 years than on one day.

It's also a millstone around your neck, if you decide you don't like it.

Interestingly, I never knew that 80% of Dell sales were to corporate customers. Given that Apple sells most of its smaller marketshare to consumers, I'm guessing that there's not much difference between their consumer marketshare.

Who'd a thunk it?

[Asher]

Originally posted by Agathon
It's also a millstone around your neck, if you decide you don't like it.

Interestingly, I never knew that 80% of Dell sales were to corporate customers. Given that Apple sells most of its smaller marketshare to consumers, I'm guessing that there's not much difference between their consumer marketshare.

Who'd a thunk it?

That's a BS figure about Dell's sales, if I ever saw one.