More Apple pwnage

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Wiglaf

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2003/10/23/nokia_figures_claim_massive_ngage/

Examine what Nokia did (reporting retailer sales as unit sales). It is common.

Common? Then why is it news. That story reads as though Nokia is doing something out of the ordinary.

Here's the thing. If AT&T has no right to return the iphones in their inventory then why would they have such a large inventory and why aren't they trying harder to sell them.

Look at the Apple stores. The apple store risk the loss on the inventory of iphones there obviously and they outsell the AT&T stores 7 to 1. I'm sure there is no problem with inventory in those stores.

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Asher
Those claims have already been backed up. You are being absurd, I am terminating our conversation if you do not understand the concept of selling to retailers, who then sell to consumers. You also do not apparently understand that iPhones need to be activated to be used, and their low activation numbers (cited in this thread) are useful in determining how many are actually sold to consumers.

It is clear that short of me hacking into AT&T databases and displaying a store-by-store breakdown of Apple stock, you will never be convinced. You are free to ignore AT&T activation numbers as well as monitoring by independent firms researching sales figures, but do so knowing you're completely wrong.

I don't care what you do Asher. You haven't put forth an argument worth a ****.

[Asher]

My argument, which makes perfect sense in business terms and logically and is supported by the status quo of consumer electronic manufacturers, isn't worth a ****. Your argument, meanwhile, which is based upon your theory that Apple has an obscure and unusual agreement with AT&T -- and ignores activation numbers and observably slow sales at AT&T stores -- and ignores the reasoning behind a massive pricecut for the new product, clearly is well-reasoned and substantiated.

I salute you, sir.

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Asher


My argument, which makes perfect sense in business terms and logically and is supported by the status quo of consumer electronic manufacturers, isn't worth a ****.

What consumer electronic manufacturers? You keep saying that, but we have no idea who you are talking about.

Your argument, meanwhile, which is based upon your theory that Apple has an obscure and unusual agreement with AT&T

It's not obscure by a long shot. I'll concede that it's rare in the electronics industry if you will just provide any kind of evidence.

-- and ignores activation numbers

Is it possible that some iphones have been purchased but have not been activated. Of course it is. So what do the activation numbers mean. Give us an argument and a little respect. Few people are just going to accept what you are saying without you backing it up.

and observably slow sales at AT&T stores

That actually hurts your argument. Why would AT&T stores be selling less if they have so much inventory that they can't return if they don't sell it?

-- and ignores the reasoning behind a massive pricecut for the new product

That doesn't mean anything.

[Asher]

Wow...

[Wiglaf]

Is it possible that some iphones have been purchased but have not been activated. Of course it is. So what do the activation numbers mean.

Not just "some," but over 70% of iPhones "sold" the first 3 days were not activated.

More up to date stats are not available because Apple has obviously chosen not to release them.

These numbers make no sense, so clearly the iPhones "sold" figure refers to sold to retail, not users.

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Wiglaf
Most iphone users had no problems activating, also:

http://money.cnn.com/2007/07/02/technology/iphone_sales/

So what you have are people saying "Apple sold 500,000-700,000 iphones" in the first weekend but only activated a fraction of that. Since that is silly and makes no sense, the only rational conclusion is that a "sold" iPhone includes sales to retailers, not customers.

It is misleading and bad for confidence, but Nokia did it with their crappy N-Gage and Apple is doing it now..

huh? Where do you get activation numbers from that?

[Wiglaf]

Google iphone activations and iphone sales in the first weekend. Do something aside from *****ing at everyone.

You will find that apple claims about 600,000 "sales" in the same period only 146,000 phones were activated.

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Wiglaf


Not just "some," but over 70% of iPhones "sold" the first 3 days were not activated.

More up to date stats are not available because Apple has obviously chosen not to release them.

These numbers make no sense, so clearly the iPhones "sold" figure refers to sold to retail, not users.

I've read in several places today that all stores were sold out of iphones in the first 3 days. And there was a lot of problems with activation. I'm don't think we can assume anything from this.

[Asher]

As a side note...

During the uber-hyped up iPhone peak of sales during its release, it was still outsold by Blackberries 2 to 1: http://arstechnica.com/journals/appl...2-to-1-in-july

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Wiglaf
Google iphone activations and iphone sales in the first weekend. Do something aside from *****ing at everyone.

You will find that apple claims about 600,000 "sales" in the same period only 146,000 phones were activated.

Ok, and I found this which I trust you read too.

Sales of the iPhone, though, I would have to classify as surprisingly smooth. AT&T's activation system appears to be the big bottleneck at this point; it was down several times in the last 12 hours and is at best sluggish during peak loads. Waits in AT&T stores have also been long due to poor computer support. One fan waiting in line at the AT&T store in Manhattan, left the line, walked to the Apple Store on Fifth Avenue, bought an iPhone, walked back to AT&T, and the line hadn't moved from where he was in it. Ouch.

On the other hand, Apple's decision to decouple phone activation from sales was a strategic move that, in hindsight, now appears to be genius incarnate. We clocked people walking out of Apple stores with new iPhones at rates of one to three a minute, which means anywhere from 50 to 200 phones are walking out of each of Apple's 162 stores each hour. Said another way, based upon what limited data we've been able to observe and get from others, we're looking at peak physical sales in Apple Stores on the order of 30,000 an hour.

[Asher]

As I have already said, as with all Apple products, first-day sales are enormous as fanboys with money quit their jobs, profess their undying love for Steve Jobs, and buy the product.

After that...sales drop off to almost nil. Thus the big price drop.

Again, if iPhones were being sold at a rate Apple expected, there'd be no need for the instantaneous pricedrop. The fact Apple had to make a drastic price cut really is the end of this whole conversation: they weren't selling what they thought they could at the initial price. If sales were fine, like you seem to be implying, they'd no need to alienate their early adopters and massively cut the price so soon.

[Kidlicious]

After I searched for iphone activation I found a bunch of people claiming to have trouble with activation. Activation rates for the first couple days don't mean anything.

[Whaleboy]

You know I find technology incredible these days. A small battery, a PCB, an LCD screen and a bit of steel that weighs perhaps 150 grammes is capable of causing otherwise reasonable ( ) people such as Asher and Agathon to become capable of ramming their own heads up their a*ses, kissing goodbye to reasonable discussion somewhere in their lower colons; and the realisation that no-one really gives a sh*t when... (I'd close that line of reasoning but a) I'm drunk, b) it's painfully obvious where it's going to go).

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Asher
As I have already said, as with all Apple products, first-day sales are enormous as fanboys with money quit their jobs, profess their undying love for Steve Jobs, and buy the product.

After that...sales drop off to almost nil. Thus the big price drop.

Again, if iPhones were being sold at a rate Apple expected, there'd be no need for the instantaneous pricedrop. The fact Apple had to make a drastic price cut really is the end of this whole conversation: they weren't selling what they thought they could at the initial price. If sales were fine, like you seem to be implying, they'd no need to alienate their early adopters and massively cut the price so soon.

They are most definitely selling better than fine. Any bad review? All I see is good reviews.

I hate to say just wait and see how they sell with the new price and leave it at that, but you provide nothing for an argument. It's not backed up with anything. All you can say is look they dropped the price. Well the price falls for everything. That doesn't mean jack.