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Being the heartland for thousands of years did bad things to the ecology of the area. Desertification and all that. The "fertile crescent" doesn't look it today, but was precisely that for a very, very long time.
-Arrian
-Arrian
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grog want tank...Grog Want Tank... GROG WANT TANK!
The trick isn't to break some eggs to make an omelette, it's convincing the eggs to break themselves in order to aspire to omelettehood. -
There were a few usurpers in the time before 1200AD.Nah. Up till about 1200 AD, it was a heartland of civilization."The DPRK is still in a state of war with the U.S. It's called a black out." - Che explaining why orbital nightime pictures of NK show few lights. Seriously.Comment
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damn, I musta been imagining stuff at Kibbutz I visited in '81. And before anyone says "oh we dont mean Israel" Heresson has lots of green looking pics from Syria. And I hear US troops spend a lot of time in agricultural villages.Originally posted by Arrian
Being the heartland for thousands of years did bad things to the ecology of the area. Desertification and all that. The "fertile crescent" doesn't look it today, but was precisely that for a very, very long time.
-Arrian
Desertification WAS a big issue with the civilizational decline and all that, but Id be real careful applying it to later periods."A person cannot approach the divine by reaching beyond the human. To become human, is what this individual person, has been created for.” Martin BuberComment
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Reminds me of an interview I once saw with Jared Diamond. He was asked, "How would you deal with the current political crisis in the Middle East?"
Now, this is not exactly a question Jared Diamond is terribly qualified to answer. So he thinks for a moment, and then begins, "Well, with the deforestation of the fertile crescent several thousand years ago..." and the interviewer zones out.Click here if you're having trouble sleeping.
"We confess our little faults to persuade people that we have no large ones." - François de La RochefoucauldComment
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Methinks Patty is thinking not of the whole Arab ME, nor of the whole ME, nor of all muslim areas, but specifically of the Arabian peninsula. If not, I dont know hed reconcile his opinion with what we already see happening in Tunisia and Morocco, not to mention Turkey and Israel."A person cannot approach the divine by reaching beyond the human. To become human, is what this individual person, has been created for.” Martin BuberComment
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You'll noted I said "a", not "the".Originally posted by Patroklos
There were a few usurpers in the time before 1200AD.Why can't you be a non-conformist just like everybody else?
It's no good (from an evolutionary point of view) to have the physique of Tarzan if you have the sex drive of a philosopher. -- Michael Ruse
The Nedaverse I can accept, but not the Berzaverse. There can only be so many alternate realities. -- ElokComment
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nm"A person cannot approach the divine by reaching beyond the human. To become human, is what this individual person, has been created for.” Martin BuberComment
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The oil producing portions of the geographic MEMethinks Patty is thinking not of the...
I had it when people include North Africa in the ME when it obviously isn't. Its like saying Greenland or Siberia is Europe.
"The DPRK is still in a state of war with the U.S. It's called a black out." - Che explaining why orbital nightime pictures of NK show few lights. Seriously.Comment
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Originally posted by Patroklos
The oil producing portions of the geographic ME
I had it when people include North Africa in the ME when it obviously isn't. Its like saying Greenland or Siberia is Europe.
yeah, but of the classical ME, you presumably arent thinkg of the non-Arab states like Turkey and Israel (Iran is also non-Arab, is historically closer to Arab civilization than any other non-Arab muslim society, I dont know if you include them or not)
And Egypt is technically North African, but historically very much tied into the ME politically and culturally, more so than to the Magreb.
They produce oil, but not much, so I presume you exclude them. Libya is North African and adjoins the Magreb, but its alot like KSA economically. Syria is not an oil producer but isnt really taking off economically. Jordan HAS turned towards the global economy, but its future is hostage to the Israel-Pal situation. Iraq we've heard much about, and I wont add any here, except to mention that Kurdistan is at least doing well economically.
So while people who include Morocco in the ME may be silly, Im not sure you are using a more geographically defensible concept either."A person cannot approach the divine by reaching beyond the human. To become human, is what this individual person, has been created for.” Martin BuberComment
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Usually, almost exclusively, when I talk about the ME I am roughly inluding every thing bound between the Med/Red Sea on one side, The Black Sea/Caspian to the north. the borders bwtween Afghanistan/Pakistan an Iran on the other side, and The Gulf of Oman and The Gulf of Aden to the south.
While there are indeed some exceptions the craptastic state of the majority of that area, generalizations are for the most part correct."The DPRK is still in a state of war with the U.S. It's called a black out." - Che explaining why orbital nightime pictures of NK show few lights. Seriously.Comment
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Leaving aside Israel, Turkey is one helluva huge exception.Originally posted by Patroklos
Usually, almost exclusively, when I talk about the ME I am roughly inluding every thing bound between the Med/Red Sea on one side, The Black Sea/Caspian to the north. the borders bwtween Afghanistan/Pakistan an Iran on the other side, and The Gulf of Oman and The Gulf of Aden to the south.
While there are indeed some exceptions the craptastic state of the majority of that area, generalizations are for the most part correct.
Iran - Iran without oil, but WITH the mullahs, doesnt look too good. But will the mullahs outlast the oil? Iran without either could do very well, I think.
And that leaves you the Arabian peninsula, Jordan, Syria, Iraq and Lebanon.
Best looking society among those is probably Jordan, and Leb was looking ok for a while, but as both are tied economically to the Arabian peninsula, its hard to say what they do if the peninsula goes down."A person cannot approach the divine by reaching beyond the human. To become human, is what this individual person, has been created for.” Martin BuberComment
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And of course there's teh UAE (with Dubai
), Qatar, Bahrain, Oman, Kuwait, etc., who seem to be quite happy to leave their backward neighbours in teh dust.
Hardly "nothing but sand."THEY!!111 OMG WTF LOL LET DA NOMADS AND TEH S3D3NTARY PEOPLA BOTH MAEK BITER AXP3REINCES
AND TEH GRAAT SINS OF THERE [DOCTRINAL] INOVATIONS BQU3ATH3D SMAL
AND!!1!11!!! LOL JUST IN CAES A DISPUTANT CALS U 2 DISPUT3 ABOUT THEYRE CLAMES
DO NOT THAN DISPUT3 ON THEM 3XCAPT BY WAY OF AN 3XTARNAL DISPUTA!!!!11!! WTFComment
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Not right now, like I said, but what about without oil profits?Hardly "nothing but sand.""The DPRK is still in a state of war with the U.S. It's called a black out." - Che explaining why orbital nightime pictures of NK show few lights. Seriously.Comment
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MENAOriginally posted by Patroklos
The oil producing portions of the geographic ME
I had it when people include North Africa in the ME when it obviously isn't. Its like saying Greenland or Siberia is Europe.
And I have always known the North Pole is European territory
"Ceterum censeo Ben esse expellendum."Comment
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What if America didn't have the military industrial complex?Originally posted by Patroklos
Not right now, like I said, but what about without oil profits?
... or wait, that would be much better.I drank beer. I like beer. I still like beer. ... Do you like beer Senator?
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