China bans Buddhist monks from reincarnating

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by Arrian
Yes, unregulated capitalism will result in that. Look at mid-19th century in Britain, for example.

-Arrian

At least in 19th century Britain workers could and DID organize politically.

[LordShiva]

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by Cort Haus
As absurd as the story in the OP is, I saw a programme about Tibet recently which gave evidence of modernisation and improved transport and living standards in Tibet. Whether this is an acceptable trade-off for lack of self determination, you'd have to ask the Tibetans - and not just the old ruling class.

yeah, cause in countries that werent occupied by China, there hasnt been ANY modernization, improved transport or living standards. Everything has just been frozen in time, especially in south and east asia, you know. Kinda like how if not for imperialism, every country would have stayed EXACTLY where it was when the imperialists first showed up on their doorstep.

As for asking the Tibetans, other than the exiles, Id be delighted - let China offer free speech, press and assembly, and free and fair local elections, and we can find out exactly what they think. Till then Im not giving the PRC the benefit of the doubt.

[DinoDoc]

Originally posted by LordShiva

Where can I pick it up?

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by Cort Haus


Yeah, what have the Romans ever done for us? I'm not supporting China's policy, I'm putting into context.

The Romans murdered us and sent us to exile, so that we derived no benefit from their aqueducts, etc. Rome is history, and we returned, and Tibet will survive and be free as well.

[LordShiva]

Originally posted by DinoDoc
Where can I pick it up?

Teh same place they're giving out Ashers.

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by Cort Haus
Well, in fact I do get it. It's old fashioned foreigner-bashing with a respectable icing of moral grandstanding.

Except most of the folks in the USA (and I suspect in the UK) who like to bash foreigners are uninterested in Tibet, while those are interested tend to be internationalist and cosmopolitan.

[lord of the mark]

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by Cort Haus


The relocation of world manufacturing to China is a product of capitalism. Feel free to oppose that system if you like. Don't blame China though, for just catching up with the rest of the capitalist world. Or would you prefer it to remain strictly communist?

Id settle for it giving Chinese workers as much freedom as the chartists had in the 1850s.

China tries to silence mine families

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070821/...ina_mine_flood;_ylt=AhxT6GVJyB78QhJddjux3fYBxg8F




China tries to silence angry families By CHARLES HUTZLER, Associated Press Writer
Tue Aug 21, 6:17 PM ET


XINTAI, China - Officials increased the pressure on the distraught families of 181 trapped miners Tuesday, deploying riot police, threats and money to silence their angry demands for answers to what caused the disaster.


The Huayuan mine was flooded on Friday trapping 172 workers underground, while nine others are missing in a nearby mine run by a different company.

The families have been questioning why the Huayuan Mining Co. sent their loved ones into the 3,000-foot-deep shaft while the threat of flooding grew and other area mines shut down.

"The news reports say it is a natural disaster because of the rain. But the accident is because of the mine management. Every year there is flooding," said Ma Xiumei, as she stood outside the Huayuan compound with her sister to demand information about their missing brother.

The Huayuan accident is shaping up to be one of the worst mining accidents in 58 years of communist rule.

On Monday, five men stormed into the company compound and smashed an office.

In a sign the government and Huayuan were bracing for more trouble on Tuesday, police tape was strung up 20 yards outside the company's gate. Twenty riot police with shields and black helmets stood behind the cordon.

Government and company officials used other tactics to discourage angry protests. Some families were sequestered in hotels and ordered not to leave or talk to other families, said two relatives of a trapped miner who sneaked out of their hotel.


Mining company officials also visited families and told them to stay at home. Some families said they received $265 — more than two months of the average miners' wages — to keep quiet.

While the Ma sisters stood outside the gate complaining, a woman dressed in white slacks, and later identified as a Huayuan employee, took Ma Xiumei aside and delivered a threat.

"She said, 'Don't make too big a fuss about this. You've got to think about your brother's job,'" Ma said.

Such intimidation counts for a lot in a place like Xintai, where coal mining is the main employer.

Government officials and Huayuan executives have largely refused to face the miners' families, and have shied away from giving detailed accounts to the media.

Instead, the government put three experts advising the rescue effort in front of the media at a news conference, which quickly took on a defensive tone.

While the experts sought to portray the mine as a natural disaster, brought on by the heavy rains and complicated by the mine's depth, they refused to say how long it would take to siphon off the water or estimate the chances for the miners' survival.

The head of an expert panel, water engineer Bu Changsheng, was quoted by the official Xinhua news agency as saying that the pumping would take "100 days" and that "the rescue operation is not progressing as quickly as we hope." But when pressed by reporters, Bu refused to confirm the estimate, saying it was hard to assess.

Xinhua cited officials at the rescue task force headquarters as saying that rescue crews were still nearly 330 feet from the 14 nearest miners, who were trapped 680 feet below the surface.

Many of the families have privately said they believe the miners are dead and want the government to ensure adequate compensation. For the Ma sisters, that meant enough money to care of their nearly 70-year-old mother, their brother's wife and the couple's two young daughters.

"If these miners are safely brought home we won't say a thing, but if it is the worst then they (the company) need to think about my younger brother's laid-off wife, his children, his aging mother," said Ma Xiuhua.

[dannubis]

Originally posted by lord of the mark


The Romans murdered us and sent us to exile, so that we derived no benefit from their aqueducts, etc. Rome is history, and we returned, and Tibet will survive and be free as well.

Wasn't that after the umpteenth uprising in Judea ?

You might want to mention the cause for the diaspora as well...

[Elok]

Also, if Tibet follows the Israel model it will eventually gain "independence" but China will continue bombing it forever out of pique. Yay.

[dannubis]

Bad mountain... bad ...

[Cort Haus]

Originally posted by lord of the mark
As for asking the Tibetans, other than the exiles, Id be delighted - let China offer free speech, press and assembly, and free and fair local elections, and we can find out exactly what they think.

Sure, that would be good. Was the lama-ist theocracy a democratic model, or was it, like, a theocracy? While its restoration would undoubtedly be self-deterministic, would it fit western perceptions of a free society?

Is it true that the Nazis were forging links with the old regime there?

[Shrapnel12]

What is in Tibet anyway? Why do the Chinese desire it so? Are they that scared of the Tibetan hordes that they need to control it so? Is it rich in resources? I guess this is a dumb question. Afterall why does any totalitarian regime act the way it does?

[Cort Haus]

I think that China see Tibet as part of their turf. Here's the chinese viewpoint:

http://www.index-china.com/index-english/Tibet-s.html

Note the "British aggressors invaded China's Tibet twice in 1888 and 1903" They've obviously been reading 'Poly.