We need a third party

[Zkribbler]

For years, I've been waiting for the Repug coalition to splinter; it's made of too many disparate factions. To name just a few, there's: Wall Street tycoons, religous fundamentalists, neo-con adventurists, small-government traditionalist, and big-government authoritarians.

Part of Reagan's genius was breaking up FDR's ancient coalition by peeling off the so-called Reagan Democrats. But today's Dumocrats haven't been smart enough to do what Reagan did.

And Bush has draffed the Repugs so far down in the polls, I don't know whether they dare break up.

I'm wonder if the moribund Repugs will hang on forever, while the Dumocrats blunder about with no clear direction towards which to lead the country.

[Ramo]

I think this dude is fairly the representative of the Republican base. The whole capitalism is good except when it helps furriners Buchananite sentiment is just about where the rank and file is at....

[Imran Siddiqui]

I actually think he'd HATE a third party along his lines. He'd vote for them, sure... but the Republican voting base would be split in half, leading to major Democrat victories.... of course then he'd be calling for a 4th Party... of a different sort .

[Dulaak]

For years, I've been waiting for the Repug coalition to splinter; it's made of too many disparate factions. To name just a few, there's: Wall Street tycoons, religous fundamentalists, neo-con adventurists, small-government traditionalist, and big-government authoritarians.

Part of Reagan's genius was breaking up FDR's ancient coalition by peeling off the so-called Reagan Democrats. But today's Dumocrats haven't been smart enough to do what Reagan did.

And Bush has draffed the Repugs so far down in the polls, I don't know whether they dare break up.

I'm wonder if the moribund Repugs will hang on forever, while the Dumocrats blunder about with no clear direction towards which to lead the country.

Says the guy working for the government.

I think this dude is fairly the representative of the Republican base. The whole capitalism is good except when it helps furriners Buchananite sentiment is just about where the rank and file is at....

So let me get this straight, you think it's ok to break the law and allow people illegally into this country? I actually already know the answer, I just want to hear you say it.

I actually think he'd HATE a third party along his lines. He'd vote for them, sure... but the Republican voting base would be split in half, leading to major Democrat victories.... of course then he'd be calling for a 4th Party... of a different sort

It's true, any third party would split one base or the other and give a victory to someone who may not be deserving...like perot did allowing Clinton to win the election in 92. Part of the reason why there will never be a third party.

[Ramo]

So let me get this straight, you think it's ok to break the law and allow people illegally into this country? I actually already know the answer, I just want to hear you say it.

Yes.

I also think it's ok to jay-walk.

[Ramo]

And Perot mostly took votes from Clinton, not Bush (after Perot dropped out and before he got back in, Clinton had something like a 20 point lead in the polls).

[Dulaak]

Yes.

I also think it's ok to jay-walk.

The fact that you equate illegal immigration to jay-walking really says more than I ever could.

[Ramo]

I shouldn't have responded to this thread. That gave the false impression that I'm interested in what you have to say.

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by Ramo
I think this dude is fairly the representative of the Republican base. The whole capitalism is good except when it helps furriners Buchananite sentiment is just about where the rank and file is at....

most of those rank and filers are happy enough with repubs who talk a loud game, which in practive comes down to taking the Bush plan and moving it a few degrees to the right. "we will only accept letting illegals be legalized, if you, know, they have to spend 2 nights in a motel in Tiajuana, while memorizing the Federalist papers, and thats only ok if put up sharp spikey things in the southwestern desert. Ya know, cactus or something"

This guy "newts no Repub" aint like that.

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by Ramo


Yes.

I also think it's ok to jay-walk.

Thats threadjack worthy.

I think if we treated illegal entry as lightly as jaywalking (which is NOT the status quo, of course) wed soon have a society that immigrants wouldnt be all that interested in coming to. Not only would wages be depressed to equilibrating levels, but I dont think the political culture that creates the stability and economic growth that makes entry desirable would survive. I suppose you could call that the Kantian arguement against open borders.

Note of course theres a HUGE range of positions between open borders and "toss the bastards back and then lock the door and throwaway the key." Indeed, pretending there is not middle ground, and harping on the threat of open borders, is one of the rhetorical tricks of the hardline anti-immigrant movement.

[Lorizael]

Originally posted by Dulaak
The fact that you equate illegal immigration to jay-walking really says more than I ever could.

Do you think it's always wrong to break the law?

If so, what's your stance on the concept of civil disobedience?

If not, which laws can be broken, and why do those laws not follow the same standards as the ones the shall not be broken?

[Lancer]

Ross for Boss!

[Dulaak]

I'm not anti-immigrant, just anti-illegal immigrant. Ironically, there are many hispanics and other immigrants who came here legally who are not for open borders either. Only a small percentage of the population are for letting anyone and everyone in. The only reason they are open are because large corporations depend on illegal immigrants for cheap wages because they can basically treat them like dirt and get away with it. You're doing them a disservice by letting them in here undocumented. The fatal flaw of liberals is that they think with their emotions and thus end up hurting people more than helping.

On a side note, authentic mexican restaurants are one of my favorite and I'd hate to see them disappear. If the people who own these restaurants are here legally and are prosperous, there is nothing stopping the illegal ones from doing the same.

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by Lorizael


Do you think it's always wrong to break the law?

If so, what's your stance on the concept of civil disobedience?

Civil disobedience usually involves breaking a law in public, and then accepting the punishment, in order to publicize an injustice. You know, like sitting down at a lunch counter and waiting to be arrested. Or chaining yourself to the Soviet embassy as some folks I know did.


I doubt very much that the furtive folks who come and go from the house across the street from my home, are interested in publicity, or making a point about injustice.

We dont mind the spanish music that occasionally drifts over though.

[Dulaak]

Do you think it's always wrong to break the law?

If so, what's your stance on the concept of civil disobedience?

If not, which laws can be broken, and why do those laws not follow the same standards as the ones the shall not be broken?

Are you attempting to start a debate on elementary ethics? Not going to happen. It's pretty much impossible to make the argument that illegal immigration is good, and it's even more difficult to simplify it and say that it is as benign as jay-walking.