Arctic ice levels "Lowest in recorded history"

[Berzerker]

Im not sure, isnt acceleration of the pace of warming at least further evidence that the warming is anthropegenic?

Some of it obviously is, but how much remains in doubt. We came out of the mini ice age that saw 5x the volcanic activity and before that it was as or more warm than today.

as for sea levels, land based ice melt would seem to raise sea levels but ocean ice melt may actually result in lower sea levels. Some of that fresh water will make its way to warmer regions, evaporate and fall as rain or snow on land.

[Berzerker]

1. There may well have been times in the past when there was quick warming, and when it accelerated. The point is that the IPCC model of whats happening specifically suggested that something like this would happen, and it did. How else do you test a theory, other than by looking for falsifiable predictions?

A few months ago I predicted August would be our warmest month... and I was right, yippee... Why doesn't this happen in June when the sun is furthest north? Because the higher latitudes need time to absorb heat and retain it even as the sun heads for the equator. This is undoubtedly true as the sun cycles between 21.5 and 24.5 degrees, we're at ~23.5 now heading for the minimum, i.e., its the middle of August in our year, and in our Milankovich cycle.

[notyoueither]

Originally posted by lord of the mark


Im not sure, isnt acceleration of the pace of warming at least further evidence that the warming is anthropegenic?

Why would it be?

[notyoueither]

Originally posted by lord of the mark


I read somewhere recently that there was never THAT much farming in Greenland, the areas where the norse settlers did farm are basically warm enough to farm today, but its not economically feasible (the norse settlers didnt have access to a world grain market dominated by US midwestern corn, Alberta wheat, etc)

And then it got colder and their settlements starved out...

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by notyoueither


Why would it be?

well first, as a post above pointed out, the increase in melting doesnt mean an acceleration of GW. My apologies.

If there WAS an acceleration, Id think that would be evidence it was anthropogenic. A non-anthropogenic warning could have any of a variety of patterns. Anthropogenic due to GHG, should accelerate as GHG concentrations increase. GHG concentrations, IIUC, have been increasing over the last 150+ years. So youd expect (to oversimplify) that the rate of GW would increase.

Now of course this is not proof, because its certainly possible a non-anthropogenic warming could also steadily accelerate. Evidence isnt proof. Its merely one more empirical observation that is consistent with the IPCC model.

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by notyoueither


And then it got colder and their settlements starved out...

The point was not that the little ice age didnt occur. The point was to show that claims that the farming in Greenland showed the medieval warm period to be warmer than the present are false.

[St Leo]

Originally posted by Zkribbler
I wonder what the record is for the lowest recorded ice area before recorded history. The quote implies it is even lower.

It could conceivably have been zero at some point. A polar ocean not encircled by land would have rather different polar currents, and could conceivably stay warm through winter.

Originally posted by Provost Harrison
...and if we manage to make Antarctica hospitable, just think of all that extra land we get

A lot of Antarctica is below sea level because of the weight of the ice. After the ice melts, it will take tens of thousands of years for it to rebound. Northern Europe is still rebounding from the last ice age.

Originally posted by Arrian
So "recorded history" = 1979 to present.

While I am concerned about the environment, that isn't exactly a wealth of data.

-Arrian

That's recorded satellite photographs. We also have several centuries of explorers failing to find a NW or NE passage and freezing in the ice.

[St Leo]

BTW, the reason no ice on the Arctic Ocean is worrisome is because water (dark) absorbs more sunlight than ice (light). A reduction in the area covered by ice causes a feedback loop which reduces it further.

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by St Leo
[That's recorded satellite photographs. We also have several centuries of explorers failing to find a NW or NE passage and freezing in the ice.

henry hudson and frobisher and all those dudes were just part of the GW alarmism conspiracy.