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  • Most-captured city?

    Here's a query I've been pitched- which city has been captured the most times?

    I'll stretch the definition to include more peaceful "captures", such as border shifts through negotiation.
    The genesis of the "evil Finn" concept- Evil, evil Finland

  • #2
    I'll propose Syracuse, in Sicily. It's a confused list, but I think this is pretty close to correct.

    Greeks -> Epirotes -> Greeks again -> Romans -> Vandals -> Byzantines -> Muslims -> Byzantines -> Muslims again (?) -> Normans (Hauteville) -> Imperial Germans (Hohenstaufen) -> Genoa -> Germans again -> French (Anjou) -> Aragon -> Spain -> Savoy -> Austria (Habsburgs) -> Kingdom of Sicily (Bourbon) -> Independence -> Bourbons again -> Italy -> WW2 Allies -> Italy again -> Mafia (lol)
    Lime roots and treachery!
    "Eventually you're left with a bunch of unmemorable posters like Cyclotron, pretending that they actually know anything about who they're debating pointless crap with." - Drake Tungsten

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    • #3
      Belgrade and Warsaw vie for the record, or that might be most times destroyed...
      Any views I may express here are personal and certainly do not in any way reflect the views of my employer. Tis the rising of the moon..

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      • #4
        Originally posted by Cyclotron
        Greeks -> Epirotes -> Greeks again -> Romans -> Vandals -> Byzantines -> Muslims -> Byzantines -> Muslims again (?) -> Normans (Hauteville) -> Imperial Germans (Hohenstaufen) -> Genoa -> Germans again -> French (Anjou) -> Aragon -> Spain -> Savoy -> Austria (Habsburgs) -> Kingdom of Sicily (Bourbon) -> Independence -> Bourbons again -> Italy -> WW2 Allies -> Italy again -> Mafia (lol)
        Now that's impressive.

        Although I guess some city in the Fertile Crescent will take the first spot, with all the fighting between the early empires and then the 500 years of Roman-Persian wars.
        "Beware of he who would deny you access to information, for in his heart he dreams himself your master" - Commissioner Pravin Lal.

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        • #5
          Ceuta

          Phoenicians -> Greeks -> Cartaginians -> Numidia -> Mauritania -> Romans -> Vandals -> Byzantines -> Visigoths -> Idrisies -> Cordoba Caliphate -> Taifa of Malaga -> Independent -> Almoravids -> Almohads -> Taifa of Murcia -> Independent -> Hafsidas -> Azafies -> Kingdom of Fez -> Kingdom of Granada -> Kingdom of Fez plus Aragon -> Azafies (again) -> Kingdom of Fez (aaagain) -> azafies -> Fez -> Granada -> Fez -> Portugal -> Spain
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          • #6
            I was going to opine that it has to be a city somewhere on the "invasion plain" of Europe, that runs from the Urals to the Pyrannes, but Cyclotron and Thorgal have put up some very impressive lists.

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            • #7
              Kannauj

              Formerly known as Kanyakubja (called Kanogiza by Ptolemy), the town is known to have been an important center during the Gupta empire. It was a centre of Brahmanical influence for centuries. Kannauj is frequently referred to in the epic Mahabharata and is alluded to by Patańjali in the second century B.C. In the year 405 A.D. when great Chinese pilgrim Fa-hien visited the city it had only two Buddhist monastries and it was not a very large. When Hiuen Tsang visited the city in 636 A.D., however, Kannauj had grown large. Hiuen Tsang stayed here for seven years.

              Kannauj reached the pinnacle of its glory in the 7th century under emperor Harshavardhana (606-647 A.D.) Harshavardhana made Kannauj his capital. At that time it had earned the name of Mahodaya Sree due to its grandeur and prosperty. Kannauj then had a teeming population, with hundreds of Hindu and Buddhist temples and monasteries, extending along the east bank of the Ganges for about four miles. It had beautiful gardens and tanks, and was strongly fortified. Harshavardhana, however, was greatly weakened after being defeated by the Chalukya emperor Pulakesin II; his empire fell apart soon after his death.

              By the end of the 8th century, Kannauj became the focus of a three-way contest by the three dominant dynasties of the time, the Pratiharas of Malwa, the Rashtrakutas of the Deccan, and the Palas of Bengal. The Pala king Dharmapala installed a proxy king at the end of the 8th century. However, when the Pratihara king Nagabhata II conquered Kannauj in the 9th century Kannauj became the Pratihara capital for nearly 200 years. During this period, it became known as a center for poetry. The Pratiharas ruled much of northern India in the latter half of the 8th century, but they had weakened by the early 10th century. The Rashtrakuta king Indra III captured Kannauj in 916, and by the end of that century, the Pratihara domains had been reduced to a small kingdom around the town of Kannauj.

              In 1019, the town was sacked by Mahmud of Ghazni, beginning a chaotic period for the city. After this sacking of Kannauj, the area came to be dominated by the Chandela Rajput clan of Bundelkhand. The Gahadvala dynasty, descended from former vassals of the Pratiharas, established themselves as rulers of Kannauj at the end of the 11th century. Kannauj recovered some of its former prosperity under the Gahadvalas, but the respite was brief, for the city was sacked again in 1194 by Mohammed of Ghori, and by the early years of the 13th century it was incorporated into the Delhi Sultanate. Kannauj has never since recovered its importance.


              http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kannauj
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              • #8
                Let's do this again:

                Aleppo

                Amorites -> Hittites -> Assyrians -> Persians -> Macedonians (then Seleucids) -> Romans -> Sassanids -> Romans (Byzantines) -> Caliphate -> Abbasid Caliphate -> Tulunid Emirate -> Emirate of Aleppo -> Byzantines -> Emirate of Aleppo -> Ayyubid Sultanate (Saladin) -> Mongols -> Egyptian Sultanate -> Ottoman Empire -> France (Mandate of Syria) -> Syria -> United Arab Republic -> Syria

                Darn, not as many as I'd hoped. If only the crusader sieges had been successful, there would be a few more switches in there.

                Any Sicilian city is a contender simply because of how many times the island has changed hands; likewise, cities in the Levant are good candidates, though the long rule of the Ottomans in much of the Middle East stunts their potential a bit.

                Anyway, here's a candidate for least captured city (of the Old World):

                Constantinople

                Romans/Byzantines -> Crusaders -> Byzantines (Palaiologoi) -> Ottomans -> Turkey

                Lime roots and treachery!
                "Eventually you're left with a bunch of unmemorable posters like Cyclotron, pretending that they actually know anything about who they're debating pointless crap with." - Drake Tungsten

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                • #9
                  I'd say Moscow is the least conquered of the old world. (also Constantinople has a few more from when it was Byzantium)

                  Rus-> Golden Horde-> Moscovy(later became Russia)-> Commies

                  As for the most, I'd say Jerusalem.

                  Cannanites-> Israelites-> (I'm not sure where Egypt and Hittites go) Babylon-> Persia-> Macadon -> Ptolemies-> Seleucids-> Hashmonean kingdom-> Rome-> Jewish revolters-> Rome-> Palmyra-> Rome Byzantines-> Sassanids/Jewish revolters-> Byzantines-> Arab Caliphate-> Abbasids-> Fatimids-> Crusaders-> Ayyubids-> Mameluks-> Ottomans-> French (under an invasion lead by Napoleon)-> Ottomans- Britian-> Israel/ Jordon-> Israel-> Israel/ Jordon

                  Not as many as I expected
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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Will9
                    As for the most, I'd say Jerusalem.

                    Cannanites-> Israelites-> (I'm not sure where Egypt and Hittites go) Babylon-> Persia-> Macadon -> Ptolemies-> Seleucids-> Hashmonean kingdom-> Rome-> Jewish revolters-> Rome-> Palmyra-> Rome Byzantines-> Sassanids/Jewish revolters-> Byzantines-> Arab Caliphate-> Abbasids-> Fatimids-> Crusaders-> Ayyubids-> Mameluks-> Ottomans-> French (under an invasion lead by Napoleon)-> Ottomans- Britian-> Israel/ Jordon-> Israel-> Israel/ Jordon

                    Not as many as I expected
                    You can lengthen it a bit more. Change

                    Abbasids -> Fatimids-> Crusaders-> Ayyubids-> Mameluks

                    to

                    Abbasids-> Tulunids -> Abbasids -> Fatimids -> Seljuks -> Fatimids -> Crusaders -> Ayyubids -> Holy Roman Empire -> Khawarizmians -> Mameluks

                    Now we're talking...
                    Lime roots and treachery!
                    "Eventually you're left with a bunch of unmemorable posters like Cyclotron, pretending that they actually know anything about who they're debating pointless crap with." - Drake Tungsten

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                    • #11
                      I'm not that great on that area of history. Thanks.

                      Cannanites-> Israelites-> (I'm not sure where Egypt and Hittites go) Babylon-> Persia-> Macadon -> Ptolemies-> Seleucids-> Hashmonean kingdom-> Rome-> Jewish revolters-> Rome-> Palmyra-> Rome/ Byzantines-> Sassanids/Jewish revolters-> Byzantines-> Arab Caliphate-> Abbasids-> Tulunids -> Abbasids -> Fatimids -> Seljuks -> Fatimids -> Crusaders -> Ayyubids -> Holy Roman Empire -> Khawarizmians -> Mameluks-> Ottomans-> French (under an invasion lead by Napoleon)-> Ottomans- Britian-> Israel/ Jordon-> Israel-> Israel/ Jordon

                      I think we may have winner. I counted 33 times not including the Egypt and the Hittites which I'm pretty sure go somewhere in there.
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                      • #12
                        I was going to suggest Jerusalem as well. So, well done Will.

                        You could also expand it a bit further by replacing the first part with this (you can disregard the notes in the parentheses if you wish, they're just for specifics):

                        West Semites/Canaanites (we're not exactly sure who founded it, or when) -> Egyptians (Amarna period) -> Jebusites (Hittites?) -> Israelites (united under King David, later just the Jews under Rehoboam) -> Egyptians (Pharaoh Shoshenq)-> Jews (Kingdom of Judah) -> Babylonians (Nebuchadnezzar)

                        I'd also change the last entry from Israel/Jordan to Israel/Palestine.
                        Last edited by Alexander I; August 6, 2007, 02:16.
                        The Apolytoner formerly known as Alexander01
                        "God has given no greater spur to victory than contempt of death." - Hannibal Barca, c. 218 B.C.
                        "We can legislate until doomsday but that will not make men righteous." - George Albert Smith, A.D. 1949
                        The Kingdom of Jerusalem: Chronicles of the Golden Cross - a Crusader Kings After Action Report

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                        • #13
                          Okay, here's an updated version of the Jerusalem conquest log. I'm not sure, but I think there may still be a few more additions to make. I'm not positive if the Mongols/Ilkhanids ever took the city. (If they did, they didn't hold it very long.) Also, there may be more trading hands during the Diadochoi (Ptolemids/Seleucids) period, again I'm not sure.

                          West Semites/Canaanites (we're not exactly sure who founded it, or when) -> Egyptians (Amarna) -> Jebusites (Hittites?) -> Israelites/Jews -> Egyptians -> Jews -> Babylonians -> Achaemenid Persians -> Macedonians/Greeks -> Ptolemids -> Seleucids -> Hasmonean Jews -> Herodians/Idumeans/Jews (Herod the Great's reign, client state of Rome) -> Romans -> Jewish Rebels -> Romans -> Palmyrans -> Eastern Romans/Byzantines -> Sassanid Persians/Jewish Rebels -> Byzantines -> Arab Caliphate/Umayyads -> Abbasids -> Tulunids -> Abbasids -> Fatimids -> Seljuk Turks -> Fatimids -> Crusaders/Kingdom of Jerusalem -> Ayyubids -> Holy Roman Empire/Kingdom of Jerusalem -> Khwarezmian Tatars -> Mamluks -> Ottomans -> French (Napoleon) -> Ottomans -> British (mandate) -> Israel/Jordan -> Israel -> Israel/Palestine (present)

                          Phew, what a mess! Everybody wants that city (and they still do)!
                          The Apolytoner formerly known as Alexander01
                          "God has given no greater spur to victory than contempt of death." - Hannibal Barca, c. 218 B.C.
                          "We can legislate until doomsday but that will not make men righteous." - George Albert Smith, A.D. 1949
                          The Kingdom of Jerusalem: Chronicles of the Golden Cross - a Crusader Kings After Action Report

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                          • #14
                            The best part of the Jerusalem list is how brief some of the periods are. The Tulunids held the Levant for less than 30 years, and only as a buffer against the Abbasids. The Khwareszmians, who seemed to be more interested in pillaging than settling, held it for about 15. But 15 years is nothing when you consider that the Fatimids, having reconquered Jerusalem from the Seljuks after losing it to them previously, held it for the astounding period of one year before the crusaders come marching in.

                            Thanks to our combined efforts, I think we may have a winner.
                            Lime roots and treachery!
                            "Eventually you're left with a bunch of unmemorable posters like Cyclotron, pretending that they actually know anything about who they're debating pointless crap with." - Drake Tungsten

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                            • #15
                              -> Israel/Jordan -> Israel -> Israel/Palestine (present)


                              Umm... No.

                              It was Israel/Jordan from 1948 until 1967, and since then it's only Israel.
                              "Beware of he who would deny you access to information, for in his heart he dreams himself your master" - Commissioner Pravin Lal.

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