Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Victory? Please define

Collapse
X
Collapse
 
  • Page of 4
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts
Previous 1 2 3 4 template Next
  • #46
    I'm not convinced that there is a viable Iraq army, opinion pieces from war supporters aside..
    I don't think anyone has said that. What has been said is their capabilities and size are increasing at a steady rate on track with any real expectation.

    And that is happening regardless of the political goals.

    Protecting civilian populations is THE principal function of the US army in Iraq. Saying otherwise denies all connection to reality. Training the Iraqi army is a clear secondary function.
    There is no difference Ramo. The central effort in protecting civilians is the training (which means using) and arming the Iraqi army and police forces.
    "The DPRK is still in a state of war with the U.S. It's called a black out." - Che explaining why orbital nightime pictures of NK show few lights. Seriously.

    Comment

    • #47
      Originally posted by PLATO
      I am really amazed at your lack of understanding. The inability of the US forces to raise a force capable of providing enough stability for the goverment to function is the reason for the surge.
      Patroklos is right. The surge was undertaken so as to buy time for Iraqis to make compromises.

      The U.S. military can never bring about stablity. That can only be done by Iraqis. To do that, the Iraqi leadership needs to make political compromises.

      As CIA Director Gates said on last Sunday's Meet the Press, the U.S. is spending its blood in order to buy Iraqis time they need to make the compromises. The Iraqi leadership taking the month of August off is a sure sign that Iraqis are not anxious to provide the unity necessary to win the peace.

      Comment

      • #48
        Well, I think you may have misunderstood me. I said the surge is to provide security so the political process can continue, but that fact in and of itself proves security is the primary goal of the surge. One follows the other.

        Or maybe you said that too and we do agree?
        "The DPRK is still in a state of war with the U.S. It's called a black out." - Che explaining why orbital nightime pictures of NK show few lights. Seriously.

        Comment

        • #49
          Originally posted by Patroklos
          Well, I think you may have misunderstood me. I said the surge is to provide security so the political process can continue, but that fact in and of itself proves security is the primary goal of the surge. One follows the other.

          Or maybe you said that too and we do agree?
          I meant to agree.

          Comment

          • #50
            Alright
            "The DPRK is still in a state of war with the U.S. It's called a black out." - Che explaining why orbital nightime pictures of NK show few lights. Seriously.

            Comment

            • #51

              I don't think anyone has said that. What has been said is their capabilities and size are increasing at a steady rate on track with any real expectation.

              And that is happening regardless of the political goals.


              Real expectation for what, and when? And the army's capabilities were steadily increasing before the surge, nothing fundamentally has changed here. My argument is that without the necessary political compromises, it's hard to see the army and police consistently acting for a national, rather than sectarian, interest.

              There is no difference Ramo. The central effort in protecting civilians is the training (which means using) and arming the Iraqi army and police forces.


              That's some convuluted logic. Yes, Iraqi forces are used to secure the Iraqi people, but that certainly doesn't mean that the primary goal in our strategy is to build up the Iraqi army. I repeat, the primary roadblock is and always has been the lack of compromise between sectarian factions.
              "Beware of the man who works hard to learn something, learns it, and finds himself no wiser than before. He is full of murderous resentment of people who are ignorant without having come by their ignorance the hard way. "
              -Bokonon

              Comment

              • #52
                As CIA Director Gates


                Secretary of Defense. Micheal Hayden is the CIA Director.
                "Beware of the man who works hard to learn something, learns it, and finds himself no wiser than before. He is full of murderous resentment of people who are ignorant without having come by their ignorance the hard way. "
                -Bokonon

                Comment

                • #53

                  Comment

                  • #54
                    Am I right to think that by "viable army" what is meant is an army which can suppress open violence throughout Iraq and which is politically neutral?

                    Comment

                    • #55
                      Its the smell of Naplam in the morning
                      Space is big. You just won't believe how vastly, hugely, mind- bogglingly big it is. I mean, you may think it's a long way down the road to the chemist's, but that's just peanuts to space.
                      Douglas Adams (Influential author)

                      Comment

                      • #56
                        EST that is a fair statment. It is important to differentiate between security and stability. Security can be imposed, stability can not.
                        "The DPRK is still in a state of war with the U.S. It's called a black out." - Che explaining why orbital nightime pictures of NK show few lights. Seriously.

                        Comment

                        • #57
                          Well, an army capable of suppressing open violence in Iraq I can imagine.

                          A politically neutral army I cannot.

                          Comment

                          • #58
                            Re: Victory? Please define

                            Originally posted by GePap
                            So, this is for all the people who support the war in Iraq.

                            Can any of you define victory, and how you would be able to show that victory was achieved.

                            Cause I think all of us who question this war are still waiting to know what exactly you think will be achieved.
                            Victory is defined as:

                            2 Americans left alive and only 1 Iraqi, right?

                            Comment

                            Previous 1 2 3 4 template Next
                            Working...
                            X