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Originally posted by chegitz guevara
In the U.S. we had riots, like in Watts.
Which occured in California, where blacks had the vote, and Jim Crow did not exist. 1960s riots came AFTER the major De Jure successes of the civil rights movement, and after the voting changes that, in the South, made those changes de facto. The riots were about police brutality, dignity, and economic change. Arguably they achieved change wrt to the first, were ambivalent to the second, and almost certainly did not advance the third.
And the riots achieved as much change wrt police brutality where they were more or less spontaneous, as where there were organized groups involved, IIUC.
"A person cannot approach the divine by reaching beyond the human. To become human, is what this individual person, has been created for.” Martin Buber
You seem to be confusing the troops leaving with the end of British rule.
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BTW, since y'all are giving the EU credit, does George Mitchell get any credit? People are quick to diss Irish Americans for making things worse, can we acknowledge when they helped improve things?
"A person cannot approach the divine by reaching beyond the human. To become human, is what this individual person, has been created for.” Martin Buber
What can it possibly matter when or in what circumstances the ancester of someone in N. Ireland arrived there?
If it did, the implication, I suppose, is that the person whose ancesters lived there the longer enjoys some right or privilege over the person whose ancesters moved there more recently.
But that is an assertion that no-one (except nutters like the UK's National Front or the Klu Klux Klan) makes.
Clearly, however, the people of N. Ireland spent a long time thinking that things like this did matter. If we have some N.Irish Polytubbies I'd be interested to hear what the importance actually is.
But I have no interest in hearing about how it is important enough to kill and maim for. That was just nutty.
Not all Protestants in Ireland were descendants of Scottish or English immigrants. Many were Irish who wanted to be protestants. There were people in Ireland who like others in Germany, the Netherlands, etc., wanted change in the way they worshipped. The Roman Catholic church OTOH became a symbol of resistance to English occupation. If you were Irish in the 18th and 19th century and protestant you were looked on a traitor by the Irish majority and became an outcast to that community. The English lords though might have given you a cushy job just on GP. There was a great deal of inter-community distrust on both sides by the beginning of the 20th century. Each side can claim a degree of legitimate greivance based on historical claims. One thing is clear though, the anticipated backlash against protestants in Eire after independence expected by those who fled to NI never came. There is no justification to any claim that NI protestants needed to fear for their safety at the hands of the Irish government in the event that NI might have been turned over to Eire.
In the past 40 years Roman Catholicism has become more common in the UK. I wonder if this trend alone might have eventually ended the discrimination against Catholics in NI?
So where is NI bound? Is the movement for unification with Eire dead, or is the UK biding its time for the day when a transition can be made peacefully?
"I say shoot'em all and let God sort it out in the end!
I can't speak for people in N.Ireland but it would be surprising if in the short to medium term the resistance to union with Ireland on the part of the N.Ireland protestants lessened.
Meanwhile the attitude in the rest of the UK is indifference save that I doubt that any union would be agreed if that was something clearly opposed by the N.Irish protestants.
I understand that demographically catholics are heading towards becoming a majority in N.Ireland but I doubt that will change anything.
In the longer term it it appears that desire for a measure of (peacefully achieved) regional autonomy (the Basques or Catalans or Scottish for example) grows within the European Union rather than diminishing which suggests that N.Ireland may finish up retaining a regional autonomy but from London as well as from Dublin. If that is something the N.Irish catholics come to want it will be rather ironic.
I don't know what the attitude of Ireland is. They are, I think, too busy trying to catch their infrastructure up to the boom in agriculture, house building and immigration which their recently acquired prosperity brought with it, to worry about such matters.
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