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  • Let's laugh at the Tories again

    BBC, News, BBC News, news online, world, uk, international, foreign, british, online, service


    David Cameron has defended his Tory party leadership and warned there will be "no retreat to the comfort zone".
    It comes as a newspaper report said at least two Tory MPs were calling for a vote of no confidence in him.

    Coming third in two by-elections, a row over grammar schools and an apparent "Brown bounce" in the polls have prompted some unease in the party.

    Mr Cameron told Sky News the party was back on the "centre ground" with "every chance" of winning the next election.

    The Conservatives were beaten into third place by the Liberal Democrats in the two by-elections held in Ealing Southall and Sedgefield last Thursday.

    The Sunday Telegraph reported that as many as six MPs had sent letters to the chairman of the party's 1922 backbench committee - although letters from 29 MPs are needed for any vote of no confidence to take place.

    Asked whether his Tory critics were going to "get their party back", Mr Cameron told Sky News: "This is the Conservative Party, but what we are not going to do is retreat to the comfort zone.

    "I made changes to and with the Conservative Party over the last 18 months for a very clear purpose, to get us back into the centre ground, to get us into a position where people listen to what we were saying, where we are more in touch with Britain as it is today."

    He said the Conservatives were ready for a general election "whenever he [Gordon Brown] has the courage to call it", and said they were the party to address Britain's "broken society" - whereas Mr Brown had been at the top of the government that had created it.

    "There is going to be a very tough battle for the next election, there's no doubt about it," Mr Cameron said.

    "But when I look at what my party has done in terms of getting into the centre, the serious long-term policy work, the team that I have got in place, I think we have every chance of fighting that election, fighting to win and winning it."

    In Ealing Southall Mr Cameron's choice of candidate, Tony Lit, proved controversial because he had only recently joined the party, and had been photographed with Tony Blair at a Labour fundraising dinner.

    But the Tory leader said Mr Lit had been a "very good candidate" and although the Conservatives had come third, their vote had not been "squeezed" but had held up.

    "I'm not satisfied, we should have done better, we need to work hard at it, but now it's on to the next test," he said.

    'Silly season'

    The Sunday Telegraph said at least two, and up to six, Tory MPs were calling for a vote of no confidence in Mr Cameron - but 1922 Committee chairman Sir Michael Spicer has refused to confirm or deny whether he had received any such letters.

    The MPs supposedly involved have not been named, and sources close to Mr Cameron have indicated it was not being taken seriously by the party leadership.

    Tory frontbencher Andrew Mitchell criticised "gutless and anonymous sniping" and told the BBC it was a "pretty flaky story".


    And former Conservative minister Ann Widdecombe, who has said Mr Cameron should do more to shore up the Tories' traditional vote, told the BBC that, if true, the story was incomprehensible.

    "I don't understand what they think I going to happen next. I mean, are they really saying - are they really saying - they want another leadership election, when this man has been so consistently ahead? It seems to me an extraordinary thing to do. And it isn't the spirit which wins wars."

    Polls for two Sunday newspapers point to a continuing "bounce" effect for Gordon Brown, with the Sunday Times showing a seven-point lead for Labour over the Tories.

    The YouGov poll puts Labour on 40%, the Conservatives on 33% and the Lib Dems on 15%.
    The genesis of the "evil Finn" concept- Evil, evil Finland

  • #2
    Some jokes just aren't funny when you repeat them often enough.
    Now Borisisms on the other hand
    Learn to overcome the crass demands of flesh and bone, for they warp the matrix through which we perceive the world. Extend your awareness outward, beyond the self of body, to embrace the self of group and the self of humanity. The goals of the group and the greater race are transcendant, and to embrace them is to acheive enlightenment.

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by Lazerus
      Some jokes just aren't funny when you repeat them often enough.
      Now Borisisms on the other hand
      His all too obvious and opportunistic attack on brown for his "mishandling" of the flooding "disaster" here just made me

      Anyone can attack, I just don't see anything positive about him. In some statement I saw him say one of his aims was to reverse "escalating family breakdown"? No word on how he'd do that of course, worthless words that I would hope no political party would ever try to act on.

      Edit: didn't mean to quote you, just in case i'm not clear i'm referring to cameron, not boris.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Lazerus
        Now Borisisms on the other hand
        all the labour cabinet ministers who came out recently and said they'd smoked weed in the past, then hastily went on to say how much they hated it and that they now regret it, blah blah blah.

        boris johnson, on the other hand, said the spliffs he smoked were 'jolly nice'.

        legend.
        "The Christian way has not been tried and found wanting, it has been found to be hard and left untried" - GK Chesterton.

        "The most obvious predicition about the future is that it will be mostly like the past" - Alain de Botton

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by thesilentone
          Anyone can attack, I just don't see anything positive about him. In some statement I saw him say one of his aims was to reverse "escalating family breakdown"? No word on how he'd do that of course, worthless words that I would hope no political party would ever try to act on.
          didn't the tories just announce some plans to give tax advantages to two parent families?
          "The Christian way has not been tried and found wanting, it has been found to be hard and left untried" - GK Chesterton.

          "The most obvious predicition about the future is that it will be mostly like the past" - Alain de Botton

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by C0ckney


            didn't the tories just announce some plans to give tax advantages to two parent families?
            Fair enough, wasn't aware of that. Don't really see how it would help the vast majority of single parent families though, my parents split when I was 11 and I know for a fact some tax breaks wouldn't have stopped that bomb going off.

            Now that I think about it more, doesn't that just reward the families who need it the least? Talk about misguided.

            Comment


            • #7
              I just heard the sweet "thunk" of a nail struck cleanly on the head there.
              The genesis of the "evil Finn" concept- Evil, evil Finland

              Comment


              • #8
                maybe i didn't put it very well. here's what the bbc had to say about it.

                Tories consider family tax reform

                Taxes and benefits must be transformed to strengthen families and cut the "social breakdown" which costs £102bn a year, a Tory policy group says.
                Former party leader Iain Duncan Smith's report calls for the "biggest shake-up of the welfare system" since the 1940s.

                It backs tax breaks for some married couples, trebling child benefit for the first three years and getting more single parents off benefits earlier.

                But Labour said the proposals would "discriminate" against some families.

                Mr Duncan Smith's policy group was established by Conservative leader David Cameron to advise on policy options - its recommendations are not binding on the party.

                It says social breakdown results in costs to the UK of £102bn a year - with family breakdown taking up £24bn, crime £60bn and educational under-achievement £18bn.

                The transferable married couples tax allowance, worth around £20-a-week, would be aimed at making it easier for one parent to stay at home to look after children or elderly relatives.

                If applied to all married couples, it would cost £3.2bn a year, and is one of 190 policy recommendations in the near-700 page report.

                Key proposals include:

                Allowing parents to "front load" child benefit, getting up to £2,800 a year up to the age of three and less when the child is older

                Lone parents expected to work 16 hours a week when youngest child reaches five and 30 hours a week when youngest child reaches 11

                Raising tax on alcohol to tackle binge drinking

                State schools judged as "failing" to be taken over by parents and charities, with pupils in disadvantaged schools getting £500 for extra tuition - academic, musical or sporting

                Reclassifying cannabis - which was downgraded to a class C drug - back to class B

                A greater role for credit unions offering low-interest loans to low-income families to help protect them from loan sharks

                Raising the gambling age limit from 16 to 18


                Mr Duncan Smith said the tax break plan was not a "golden bullet" to preserve marriage, or about "finger-wagging or moralising".

                But, he said, the current system "penalised people who are wanting to stay together" and that he was "trying to re-set the balance".

                "The Government seems to have taken the view that they don't much like marriage," he said.

                "Almost alone in Europe we have no recognition of marriage in the tax and benefits system."

                But Cabinet Office Minister Ed Miliband said the government would not "discriminate against some children" in its tax policy.

                He also said: "I don't think it's right for politicians to come on and preach."

                Liberal Democrat schools, families and children spokesman David Laws said: "A lot of the [Conservative] solutions are a bit naive - to think that we can simply tweak the taxation system and bring about a big change in people's behaviour."
                "The Christian way has not been tried and found wanting, it has been found to be hard and left untried" - GK Chesterton.

                "The most obvious predicition about the future is that it will be mostly like the past" - Alain de Botton

                Comment


                • #9
                  and getting more single parents off benefits earlier.
                  Left as it is, that looks rather ominous. Seeing as Cameron has also harped on about the importance of having stay-at-home parents to look after children, I'm left wondering how this will work.

                  I sense another Cameronism.

                  Raising tax on alcohol to tackle binge drinking
                  Won't work. Does anyone seriously think putting 20p on a pint will make an impact on Britain's drinking culture? It's just an unconvincing attempt to justify a tax rise to the Right Wing.


                  State schools judged as "failing" to be taken over by parents and charities, with pupils in disadvantaged schools getting £500 for extra tuition - academic, musical or sporting
                  Recipe for disaster. "Failing" schools tend to be in areas where parents have the least money and inclination to get involved with the local schools, not your average Tory constituency packed with Yummy Mummys with ample time and cash on their hands. This one looks really cynical- and £500 doesn't buy much secondary school-level education.

                  A greater role for credit unions offering low-interest loans to low-income families to help protect them from loan sharks
                  Will be dropped in seconds after the banking sector has a quiet word in certain ears.
                  The genesis of the "evil Finn" concept- Evil, evil Finland

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by C0ckney
                    maybe i didn't put it very well. here's what the bbc had to say about it.
                    Interesting. Well, here's my take:

                    I think they're understating the cost of educational under-achievement (how do you quantify that anyway?). I like the front-loading of child benefit, but would probably prefer just adding a one-off sum for essential baby care items/subsiding nursery care costs early on rather than subtracting any later.

                    Are single parents forced to work at all at the moment? Not sure how to compare that change, but if not - forcing them to work, even only 16-30 hours (not unreasonable) seems contrary to their aim of having a parent at home rather than at work.

                    Raising tax on alcohol, pfft, it's a given anyway, no-ones going to stop that precedent. I don't think it would have much effect though, alcohol is pretty cheap anyway and the binge drinkers they worry about probably wouldn't cut down on drink even if forced to cut back on other spending (unless we're talking a 100% hike or something.. but even then..). Annoying to me as someone who only binge drinks once or twice a month though.. stop nicking my money.

                    Putting failing schools in the hands of charities/local parents seems a bit crackpot for me, failing schools are often failing due to local despair/crime/low aspirations.

                    Cannabis to class B? I've been known to enjoy a bit every now and then, but i've known people who've changed because of it too, so, dunno. Unless the police get really behind it and criminalise a lot of otherwise harmless smokers, I don't see the point, people won't stop smoking.


                    All in all, nothing to really inspire me in these policy changes.


                    EDIT: holy idea theft x-post. I don't type all that fast so you'll have to take my word that i'm not just an echo
                    Last edited by thesilentone; July 22, 2007, 17:44.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      i've only just read about them myself. there's some things i agree with in there and some things i don't. i do think it's a debate worth having though, given the current state of our welfare system.
                      "The Christian way has not been tried and found wanting, it has been found to be hard and left untried" - GK Chesterton.

                      "The most obvious predicition about the future is that it will be mostly like the past" - Alain de Botton

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        The Tories are a joke because Labour are the "Tories".
                        Only feebs vote.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Key proposals include:

                          Lone parents expected to work 16 hours a week when youngest child reaches five and 30 hours a week when youngest child reaches 11


                          Why? Wouldn't it be better to put people who have no jobs and no children into work first?

                          Raising tax on alcohol to tackle binge drinking

                          Makes about as much sense as a tax on lotion to stop people wanking.

                          State schools judged as "failing" to be taken over by parents and charities, with pupils in disadvantaged schools getting £500 for extra tuition - academic, musical or sporting.

                          So when a school is in crisis we should give it over to people with no qualifications or expertise?

                          I know. When a hospital isn't doing so well, we should allow the local grocer to make medical decisions.

                          Reclassifying cannabis - which was downgraded to a class C drug - back to class B

                          Why? It's less harmful than alcohol and serves many people as a decent medicine (when my Dad was dying his doctor was telling me that he "suggests" that people who are having trouble with their chemo procure some to smoke. A friend of mine is supplied with medical pot by the Ontario government and has been allocated a room at U of T to smoke it in).

                          A greater role for credit unions offering low-interest loans to low-income families to help protect them from loan sharks

                          Why not simply abolish loan sharking?

                          Raising the gambling age limit from 16 to 18

                          Does Britain have a problem with teenage gamblers? I would have though that most 16-17 year olds living at home and being supported by ma and pa would mean limited opportunities to wreck their lives through gambling.
                          Only feebs vote.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Agathon
                            The Tories are a joke because Labour are the "Tories".
                            That's one way to look at it.

                            The Liberals here have done a pretty good job of the same thing.

                            Thing is, you need a change of party in power after a time. Unless you're going to go totally Albertan. Even then, the times do change... from time to time.
                            (\__/)
                            (='.'=)
                            (")_(") This is Bunny. Copy and paste bunny into your signature to help him gain world domination.

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by notyoueither

                              That's one way to look at it.
                              Another way to look at it is that the political class has become so incestuous as to offer no real options to voters.
                              Only feebs vote.

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