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Will there never be any wars in Europe again?

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  • #16
    Originally posted by Dis

    . But I think immigrants should blend in.
    The way Americans did in Texas, when it was still in Mexico....


    You don't see me waving around a german flag do ya?
    Probably grew less popular to do that during World Wars I and II.

    Still, on St. Patrick's Day no-one seems to object to fools dyeing rivers green and sporting bile coloured clothing, or Italian Americn neighbourhoods celebrating Saints' days.
    Vive la liberte. Noor Inayat Khan, Dachau.

    ...patriotism is not enough. I must have no hatred or bitterness towards anyone. Edith Cavell, 1915

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    • #17
      st patties day is a bull**** holiday. just an excuse for people to get drunk. most people in irish pubs aren't even irish.

      as for Texas, the americans didn't blend in, and look what happened. It broke off from Mexico. you just proved my point.

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      • #18
        I'm being quite serious when i say that I believe the internet will end all wars.

        Once everyone is on the internet and communicating with people from all over the world they just wont have the heart to hate other countries, it'll be the end of xenophobia, nationalism and just general narrow-mindedness.

        By the internet I mean mainly "global communications", the ability for people to easily communicate with people unobstructed by geography.

        It is possible that there will still be ideological or cultural wars - for a medium like the internet makes it VERY easy to have a narrow worldview - sticking with people like you. But wars between nations? Dinosaurs.

        The internet, will be slow to properly infuse into certain cultures. It would even be possible to engage in social engineering to prevent "The internet ending wars", for example imagine a Middle Eastern "Allahnet" such that no-one "has" to communicate with infidels. Frankly I'm not sure if such social engineering would succeed. But I think, in principle anyway, global communications will end wars between nations, not quite in this generation, probably the next.

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        • #19
          I'm being quite serious when i say that I believe the internet will end all wars.


          So many counterexamples... vi vs. emacs, Windows vs. Mac vs. Linux, etc.

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          • #20
            Do you really believe that, blake? People are hating just as much on the net as ever.

            IMHO there are no wars going on (war defined as a country vs country affair to seize some objective) because of the political climate arising from the early 20th century and continuing with the one-superpower balance of power we have today. It is now very hard to attack a country like you could before in 18th\17th\16th era and earlier, because it will instantly escelate and eventually all major powers will be involved. Also since WW1\2 wars are fought to the death so the risk in starting that war is much higher
            A ship at sea is its own world. To be the captain of a ship is to be the unquestioned ruler of that world and requires all of the leadership skills of a prince or minister.

            Men grow tired of sleep, love, singing and dancing, sooner than war

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            • #21
              I don't have Blake's faith in the internet.

              Just talking to your own people if anything increases the rationale for fighting others. And simply knowing others does not end conflict. how would you explain intrastate wars, which are the most common type of war of all?

              I don't forsee a large war in Europe as long as economic integration continues, not because wealthier people don't fight, but because it makes war the poorer choice. That of course assumes that the larger value questions have been removed. Someone needs to convince large enough numbers of people that an expensive war is the solution to a problem. The more the cost-benefit analysis makes less sense, the less likely a war. So again, as long as the big value questions are muted or minor, economic integration will make conflict very unappealing.
              If you don't like reality, change it! me
              "Oh no! I am bested!" Drake
              "it is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong" Voltaire
              "Patriotism is a pernecious, psychopathic form of idiocy" George Bernard Shaw

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              • #22
                I repeat
                It is possible that there will still be ideological or cultural wars - for a medium like the internet makes it VERY easy to have a narrow worldview - sticking with people like you. But wars between nations? Dinosaurs.
                I'm not saying that the internet will reduce net hate. It's mostly that people will be FAR more likely to have people they consider to be good friends in other countries, making it increasingly difficult to rally one geographically distinct population against another.

                I'd say that it's more likely that society collapses into some kind of violent anarchy of "Warring gated communities", than back into a system of imperialistic war.

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                • #23
                  Blake optimism is ... cute!

                  I don't see how it could be possible to see a "traditional" war in Europe; a war between two different well established country.

                  Immigration could be a problem in the future of Europe; I'm questioning myself if the rioting that we have seen in France 1 years ago was not a prelude, an avant goût of what will be more frequent in the future.
                  bleh

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by Blake

                    I'd say that it's more likely that society collapses into some kind of violent anarchy of "Warring gated communities", than back into a system of imperialistic war.
                    I see it in the way.
                    bleh

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by cronos_qc
                      Immigration could be a problem in the future of Europe; I'm questioning myself if the rioting that we have seen in France 1 years ago was not a prelude, an avant goût of what will be more frequent in the future.
                      Most countries have riots from time to time, France probably more so than most. What's so special about these ones?

                      Oh, and France != Europe.

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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by Dis
                        st patties day is a bull**** holiday. just an excuse for people to get drunk.
                        .
                        Your opinion on St. Patrick's Day notwithstanding, it shows that Irish Americans get a free pass to 'remember the old country' in a way that Hungarian, Iranian and El Salvadoran Americans presumably don't.

                        most people in irish pubs aren't even irish.
                        And ? It's hardly compulsory to be in an 'Irish pub' on St. Patrick's Day. Nor is it a requirement that 'Irish pubs' serve only the 'Irish' or 'Irish Americans'.

                        What a daft comment.


                        as for Texas, the americans didn't blend in, and look what happened. It broke off from Mexico. you just proved my point.
                        I did nothing of the sort. Some people are obviously expected 'to blend in' in the U.S. and others aren't.

                        Equally it would appear that U.S.A.ers aren't supposed to 'blend in' when resident abroad either.
                        Vive la liberte. Noor Inayat Khan, Dachau.

                        ...patriotism is not enough. I must have no hatred or bitterness towards anyone. Edith Cavell, 1915

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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by molly bloom


                          Your opinion on St. Patrick's Day notwithstanding, it shows that Irish Americans get a free pass to 'remember the old country' in a way that Hungarian, Iranian and El Salvadoran Americans presumably don't.

                          Hmmm? ISTR going to a Greek festival on some Greek holiday, and of course to Italian Saints day festivals in Little Italy/Greenwich Village. Irish get no special pass, just a more popular holiday.

                          Iranians? Theyre usually protesting against the Mullahs when they get in the news, but being largely an upper middle class community, they tend not to be in the news all that much.

                          Central Americans around here do celebrate their identities, including bumper stickers with Salvadoran or Guatamalan flags. I dont know much about their Sts days.

                          Folks in the SW do get a tad nervous about Mexicans flying Mexican flags. The fact that their territory used to be part of Mexico, whereas no part of the US was part of "Ireland", Hungary, or Iran, probably makes the diff. (We've gotten over any concern about the UK, France, the Netherlands, and Sweden, for the most part )

                          Nonetheless partying on Cinco de Mayo is pretty common here, despite that being a secular national holiday of another state, and not a religious holiday. But not as intense partying as St Patricks day, I guess.
                          "A person cannot approach the divine by reaching beyond the human. To become human, is what this individual person, has been created for.” Martin Buber

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                          • #28
                            Your opinion on St. Patrick's Day notwithstanding, it shows that Irish Americans get a free pass to 'remember the old country' in a way that Hungarian, Iranian and El Salvadoran Americans presumably don't.
                            Molly calling someone else daft after spouting this drivel

                            I can't think of any ethnic holiday that is not celebrated by everyone here, with the exception of retarded made up holidays like Qwansa (sp? like I care). Even during the middle of the immigration debate Cinco de Mayo went off without a hitch. I don't think I ran into a single Mexican national all day, didn't stop my white ass from doing tequila shots all night. Mardi Gras anyone?

                            The thing about St Patty's and whatnot is it is done in good humor. Remembering one's heritage is different than maintaining it. I don't remember too many Irishman demanding we post our street signs in Gaelic.
                            "The DPRK is still in a state of war with the U.S. It's called a black out." - Che explaining why orbital nightime pictures of NK show few lights. Seriously.

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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by Sandman

                              Most countries have riots from time to time, France probably more so than most. What's so special about these ones?

                              Oh, and France != Europe.
                              It was mainly to say if war happen again in Europe it wouldn't be between country.

                              But on ethnic/religious and economics lines(like the riot in France, but on a bigger scale) or from religious activist already inside the country.(like the terrorism in U.K. and Spain).

                              Or a mix of the two; social unrest being used by religious activism to show their power and to gain more power and maybe one day being in an open conflict against some European states.
                              Last edited by CrONoS; July 9, 2007, 18:59.
                              bleh

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                              • #30
                                Re: Will there never be any wars in Europe again?

                                Originally posted by Dis


                                And yes I know about the Kosovo war and other conflicts. They seem minor compared to the world wars, napoleanic, and 30 years war. And with hope, a lot of the disputes of the 90's wars have been resolved. Though the status of Kosovo is still in question.
                                The Balkans have been a constant strain on international relations for the past centuries in Europe, having led to quite a few conflicts, and probably they will continue to do so imo.

                                Btw: Russia is attempting to regain its former strength. A future cold war is not a far-fetched idea imo. And this time they won't have to waste their resources on eastern-Europe. Transferring resources at ridiculously low prices to those countries was a major financial disaster for the USSR. No need to worry about that now those countries are going to leech off the western Europeans
                                "An archaeologist is the best husband a women can have; the older she gets, the more interested he is in her." - Agatha Christie
                                "Non mortem timemus, sed cogitationem mortis." - Seneca

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