The loudness war or how the music industry is butchering CD sound quality

[Cort Haus]

Originally posted by nostromo
He made it into a vinyl vs. CD issue, IIRC. And its BS, IMO. The problem is compression, not the CD technology.

Yes, it's the mastering process post-production rather than the medium. A good mastering engineer will compress it up to what's called a 'commercial master' level without too much clipping (hitting the digital ceiling) that makes it sound too fierce, but the competetive nature of radioplay has lead to the demand for mastering compression to 'stand up' to the songs around it on the radio.

I haven't watched the vid in the OP, but I know that if your song doesn't stand up to its neighbours on the radio it is generally considered that it will suffer. Perhaps consumers bear some responsibility, if it is their demand for maxed out mastering compression that has driven this imperative.

I don't know whether there are particular record companies that have a policy of going overboard, but it is possible that there is no-one in particular to blame if the market is driving the sales requirement over end-quality. It wouldn't be the only industry where saleability trumps quality.

When my band did its album in 2005 we spent around £500 for just two hours work with one of the top mastering engineers in the country. Not only did it 'stand up' in commercial terms but it was less 'fierce' than some of my favourite albums in a similar genre, so we were quite pleased. There was one track which was a bit edgy, but the levels in the mix were a factor in that.

All-analogue technology allowed some saturation without clipping, but I can't see the iPod generation going back to vinyl, so it's not a CD issue as much as a digital issue. Having said that, if the iPod generation are prepared to lose quality to lossy mp3 compression, they might not notice a bit of mastering clipping anyway.

[Nostromo]

Originally posted by Bkeela
Is there a list of albums that have this problem?

I haven't found a master list, but here are some examples:

- Lily Allen
Alright, Still (Regal, 2006)

This bouncy pop might sound better if it were not mastered for loudness at the expense of dynamic range.

- Iggy Pop and the Stooges
Raw Power (Columbia, 1997)

Remixed by Pop in 1997, this remains among "the loudest CDs ever made".

- Red Hot Chili Peppers
Californication (Warner, 1999)

Criticised for excessive compression and distortion. Subject of an online petition calling for a reissue.

- Oasis
(What's the Story) Morning Glory (Creation, 1995)

Exceptionally loud album that forced others to compete in volume.

- Rush
Vapor Trails (Warner, 2002)

"I can't get into this album at all, it lacks clarity, the songs sound the same," says one user review on Amazon. The overloud mastering may be to blame for this perception.

- Paul Simon
Surprise (Warner, 2006)

Even long-established folk stars are competing in the loudness wars, to the detriment of the sound quality.

- Christina Aguilera - Back to Basics

- Arctic Monkeys - Whatever People Say I Am, That's What I'm Not

- The Flaming Lips - At War with the Mystics

- Queens of the Stone Age - Songs for the Deaf

- Santana - Supernatural

- Sting - Brand New Day

- Paul McCartney - Memory Almost Full

[Krill]

- Queens of the Stone Age - Songs for the Deaf

You'd think the CD would be loud, with that title...

[SlowwHand]

Compression is NOT the problem
During compression, if you're using the right program, you can see the fluxuation in WAV quality that's on the CD.
Compression can only compress what exists.

[Nostromo]

Originally posted by Cort Haus

Yes, it's the mastering process post-production rather than the medium. A good mastering engineer will compress it up to what's called a 'commercial master' level without too much clipping (hitting the digital ceiling) that makes it sound too fierce, but the competetive nature of radioplay has lead to the demand for mastering compression to 'stand up' to the songs around it on the radio.

I haven't watched the vid in the OP, but I know that if your song doesn't stand up to its neighbours on the radio it is generally considered that it will suffer.

Some people feel its unnecessary since radio station now process the music they broadcast.

Perhaps consumers bear some responsibility, if it is their demand for maxed out mastering compression that has driven this imperative.

Maybe. After all, humans can't help but feel that louder=better sounding. If a song is a bit louder than another song, you'll think it sounds better. The same is true with stereo components. If a CD player is a tiny bit louder than another one, you'll think it sounds better.

I don't know whether there are particular record companies that have a policy of going overboard, but it is possible that there is no-one in particular to blame if the market is driving the sales requirement over end-quality. It wouldn't be the only industry where saleability trumps quality.

That, too, is possible.

All-analogue technology allowed some saturation without clipping, but I can't see the iPod generation going back to vinyl, so it's not a CD issue as much as a digital issue. Having said that, if the iPod generation are prepared to lose quality to lossy mp3 compression, they might not notice a bit of mastering clipping anyway.

Its not even an analogue issue, IMO. Read the history section in my Wikipedia quote above:

The practice of focusing on loudness in mastering can be traced back to the introduction of the compact disc itself, but also existed to some extent when vinyl was the primary released recording medium. Many record companies would print compilation records, and when artists and producers found their song was quieter than others on the compilation, they would insist that their song be remastered to be competitive. Also, many Motown records pushed the limits of how loud records could be made, and record labels there were "notorious for cutting some of the hottest 45s in the industry." However, because of the limitations of the vinyl format, loudness and compression on a released recording were restricted in order to make the physical medium playable — restrictions which do not exist on digital media such as CDs — and as a result, increasing loudness levels never reached the significance that they have in the CD era. In addition, modern digital audio effects processing allows mastering engineers to have greater control over the loudness of a song; for example, it gives them the ability to use a "brick wall" limiter which limits the volume level of an audio signal with no delay (analog equivalents have a short delay due to processing time).

[Nostromo]

Originally posted by SlowwHand
Compression is NOT the problem
During compression, if you're using the right program, you can see the fluxuation in WAV quality that's on the CD.
Compression can only compress what exists.

We're not talking about the same thing here. For audio engineers and record producers, compression is what the guy describes in the movie I posted. We're talking about audio level or dynamic range compression. Its not the same thing as data compression.

[SlowwHand]

Ok. Just making sure. You know...

[Nostromo]

I also mixed them up when I started reading on this stuff

[Barnabas]

Cant musicians do what they have always done and get their money from concerts?

[Kuciwalker]

Originally posted by nostromo
Maybe. After all, humans can't help but feel that louder=better sounding. If a song is a bit louder than another song, you'll think it sounds better. The same is true with stereo components. If a CD player is a tiny bit louder than another one, you'll think it sounds better.

You know, this suggests something

[Provost Harrison]

This seems really silly. You'd think they'd optimise the music to fit within the amplitude range provided by CD and not to have clipping at the higher ends.

I say we punish them by downloading all of our music for free. That's my logic and I'm sticking to it

[Cort Haus]

Originally posted by Barnabas
Cant musicians do what they have always done and get their money from concerts?

No. If you think about it, that's a dumb suggestion. I'll explain why later if I can be bothered.

[Cort Haus]

Originally posted by Provost Harrison
I say we punish them by downloading all of our music for free. That's my logic and I'm sticking to it

All thieves have their own 'logic' to justify their crimes.

[Barnabas]

Originally posted by Cort Haus


No. If you think about it, that's a dumb suggestion. I'll explain why later if I can be bothered.

In countries with small markets, say a country in which a platinum album is one which sells 30.000 thousand copies, musicians live of concerts, albums and music videos are just the way to get famous, not the way to make money.

[Provost Harrison]

Originally posted by Cort Haus


All thieves have their own 'logic' to justify their crimes.

Oooh, this is my second "yeah whatever" of the evening...