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We need a europower to run amok and try to conquer

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  • #91
    Italians are muts not Romans (every ancient European barbarian tribe has had a ride)...

    And it is the Vespa, not pasta, that is the downfall of the Italian martial spirit.
    "The DPRK is still in a state of war with the U.S. It's called a black out." - Che explaining why orbital nightime pictures of NK show few lights. Seriously.

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    • #92
      Originally posted by Patroklos
      Italians are muts not Romans (every ancient European barbarian tribe has had a ride)...

      And it is the Vespa, not pasta, that is the downfall of the Italian martial spirit.
      Forget Rome.

      Look at Venice - conquered Dalmatia, Crete, Cyprus, various Aegen islands, etc. Not too shabby at all.

      Genoa conquered the Crimea.

      Piedmont generally "Punched above its weight"


      Italian military performance only got shabby after unification, when they added lots of unmotivated, illiterate south Italian peasant soldiers to the Piedmontese army.
      "A person cannot approach the divine by reaching beyond the human. To become human, is what this individual person, has been created for.” Martin Buber

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      • #93
        Yeah, but how many of those Piedmonte state armies were actually made up of Italians?
        "The DPRK is still in a state of war with the U.S. It's called a black out." - Che explaining why orbital nightime pictures of NK show few lights. Seriously.

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        • #94
          Originally posted by lord of the mark


          Forget Rome.

          Look at Venice - conquered Dalmatia, Crete, Cyprus, various Aegen islands, etc. Not too shabby at all.

          Genoa conquered the Crimea.

          Piedmont generally "Punched above its weight"
          Dalmatia is hardly a great gain. Cyprus wasn't conquered, but bought. Aegean islands, Crete were conquered by IV crusade... with help of venitian fleet. If it wasn't for crusade, Venice wouldn't be able to get them from Byzantines. Take example of Adrianople etc - Venetia got it as their share of Romania, yet they weren't able to hold it, and other inland cities, at all.

          Crimea (southern part of) was kind of inherited from Byzantines as well.

          Piemont only conquered other Italians. It defeated Austria by French hands and in exchange for part of its territories.
          "I realise I hold the key to freedom,
          I cannot let my life be ruled by threads" The Web Frogs
          Middle East!

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          • #95
            Originally posted by Heresson


            Piemont only conquered other Italians. It defeated Austria by French hands and in exchange for part of its territories.
            Piedmont also fought against Russia in the Crimean war, and fought in numerous 18th c wars.
            "A person cannot approach the divine by reaching beyond the human. To become human, is what this individual person, has been created for.” Martin Buber

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            • #96
              Originally posted by Patroklos
              Yeah, but how many of those Piedmonte state armies were actually made up of Italians?
              Prior to 1770 or so everybody in Europe used mercs, to a greater or lesser degree.

              I was thinking more along the lines of Keegans comments in "The First World War" about the quality of the Piedmontese army. Though I guess apart from Crimea and the Austrian war, they didnt fight anyone. It was a relatively peaceful century in Europe.
              "A person cannot approach the divine by reaching beyond the human. To become human, is what this individual person, has been created for.” Martin Buber

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              • #97
                Originally posted by Patroklos
                Italians are muts not Romans (every ancient European barbarian tribe has had a ride)...

                And it is the Vespa, not pasta, that is the downfall of the Italian martial spirit.
                Yes! But who had a ride, eh? The forefathers of the present day Germans! You would think that would hump them an upgrade to elite, and maybe it would have, but for pasta.

                I rest my case and proclaim victory!
                Long time member @ Apolyton
                Civilization player since the dawn of time

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                • #98
                  Prior to 1770 or so everybody in Europe used mercs, to a greater or lesser degree.
                  True, but Italy was especially notable for it. And again if we are talking about Italian fighting prowess it is important to not site examples that were achieved by non-Italian soldiers.
                  "The DPRK is still in a state of war with the U.S. It's called a black out." - Che explaining why orbital nightime pictures of NK show few lights. Seriously.

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                  • #99
                    Originally posted by lord of the mark


                    Piedmont also fought against Russia in the Crimean war, and fought in numerous 18th c wars.
                    but did it conquer anything?
                    "I realise I hold the key to freedom,
                    I cannot let my life be ruled by threads" The Web Frogs
                    Middle East!

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                    • #100
                      It conquered Italy.
                      DISCLAIMER: the author of the above written texts does not warrant or assume any legal liability or responsibility for any offence and insult; disrespect, arrogance and related forms of demeaning behaviour; discrimination based on race, gender, age, income class, body mass, living area, political voting-record, football fan-ship and musical preference; insensitivity towards material, emotional or spiritual distress; and attempted emotional or financial black-mailing, skirt-chasing or death-threats perceived by the reader of the said written texts.

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                      • #101
                        As I've mentioned: conquering Italians doesn't count. It's like You'd lose virginity after masturbating.
                        "I realise I hold the key to freedom,
                        I cannot let my life be ruled by threads" The Web Frogs
                        Middle East!

                        Comment

                        • #102
                          Yes! But who had a ride, eh? The forefathers of the present day Germans! You would think that would hump them an upgrade to elite, and maybe it would have, but for pasta.
                          Hmmmm....

                          True, but they were also conquered by the French in the Napoleonic Wars. It might be a wash.
                          "The DPRK is still in a state of war with the U.S. It's called a black out." - Che explaining why orbital nightime pictures of NK show few lights. Seriously.

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                          • #103
                            What about the Spanish? They were pretty nasty in pre-industrial times.
                            DISCLAIMER: the author of the above written texts does not warrant or assume any legal liability or responsibility for any offence and insult; disrespect, arrogance and related forms of demeaning behaviour; discrimination based on race, gender, age, income class, body mass, living area, political voting-record, football fan-ship and musical preference; insensitivity towards material, emotional or spiritual distress; and attempted emotional or financial black-mailing, skirt-chasing or death-threats perceived by the reader of the said written texts.

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                            • #104
                              Originally posted by Patroklos


                              Hmmmm....

                              True, but they were also conquered by the French in the Napoleonic Wars. It might be a wash.
                              Victory has already been proclaimed.
                              Long time member @ Apolyton
                              Civilization player since the dawn of time

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                              • #105
                                Originally posted by Colon™
                                What about the Spanish? They were pretty nasty in pre-industrial times.
                                They paid it all with American silver.

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