"We've invented adolescence, and stretched it out too far" says psychologist

[Jon Miller]

And by responsibility I don't just mean the rights to do things. Rights but no responsiblility is heading for disaster. They should be responsible for their day to day living aso (food, shelter, etc). It is both combined which makes adulthood. Being able to make decisions, and being responsible for what happens with the decisions.

JM

[Jon Miller]

I think that education is important, but we should encourage people to race ahead, not try to make everyone the same (which is generally the slower, lazier people). Complete your required education (highschool) by age 13 or so, then have it so parents don't pay for college (currently parents don't pay for college if you are poor, but if you are rich, they have to as loans aren't as available). There are loans and work(study) to pay for those who intend to go to college, but they are no longer their parents responsibility. Then college is finished by age 18 or so, and they are productive members of soceity at an earlier age.

JM

[DanS]

Originally posted by Barnabas
They have been able to handle those things for most of human history, I think education created adolescence, now you have to go to primary school, secondary schol, university etc, but in the past the man would learn since he was a little boy a profession like shoemaking, baking, as a blacksmith etc, get married at age 16 or 17, and work like an adult to take care of his family.

Indeed, the recognized stages of life follow society's current needs. Thankfully, people are flexible in this regard.

The book is tilting at windmills because it isn't an examination of society's current needs, or what those needs should be shaped to be.

[Jon Miller]

kid's and young adults are treated in a false manner

they are restricted and coddled, instead of working (which they can) and even instead of spending as much effort on school as they can, they are encouraged to play, even into adolesence

the attitudes and issues then, continue to hamper them for a long time in the future, maybe throughout the rest of their lives

education should be compressed and increased in intensity, and the required portion should be completed by age 14 for everyone (the ability to read and write and do simple arithmatic (like algebra) as well as basics of economics, history, science, and civics)

and school should extend through the summer, so much is forgotten during the summer months, classes end up spending 1/4 the time repeating the previous year

JM

[DanS]

You've got it backwards, Jon. Society demands highly educated individuals. The amount of education and leisure flow from those needs.

[Jon Miller]

Err, no. I am saying that the education could be done in less time. I know that society needs educated indivuals.

Do you know how much freetime children and teenagers have? Tons! I know that there are some who are very busy, but that is because of needless things like athletics and the like. Also, what happens during the summer? The summer is 1/4 of the year, and sets them bacak 1/4 of the year, so really they only have 1/2 a year advancement instead of 1 year advancement (in education). There is really no reason now to have the summers off. It just slows down the education.

JM

[Jon Miller]

I am 100% sure that if students put more work into school, and if school was all year long, that we could give most everyone what is currently a highschool education by the end of 8th grade.

JM

[DanS]

A good education requires a lot of leisure. Perhaps not quite as much as afforded to our young people (but perhaps more).

[Jon Miller]

I strongly disagree. If I had had a lot less leisure I would have been a lot more successful... For one thing, the bad habits have continued to bother me.

JM

[DanS]

You're taking a way too narrow view of education, my friend. Without large amounts of leisure, you end up as an incurious individual. I used a lot of my leisure time as a young kid to read books and learn programming.

[Jon Miller]

Most people do not. And I spent a lot of time reading, but I also spent a lot of time playing games and watching TV. Playing games is not a complete waste, but watching TV is...

Having a bit of leisure time is good. Having the levels that many kids and young adults (teenagers) have now is just asking for trouble. Some people load it up and are super busy. Others engage in deliquency and spend less time studyin and doing what they need to.

JM

[Koyaanisqatsi]

Not to mention that the last thing our society needs it to push the 'mustsucce-haveyouseenmyblackberry?-edatallcosts-where'smydamnblackberry' mentality forward by a decade.

edit: x-post

[Jon Miller]

Also, your ideas are shown false in college. In college it is the students who work (some) who often do better than the ones whose parents paid for everything and didn't work at all. I am not saying that students in college should have to work a hard 40 hours a week. However, I do think that some work, 10 hours a week at least, is very healthy and should definitely be encouraged.

I worked betewen 6 and 20 hours a week during undergrad.

JM

[Jon Miller]

Originally posted by Koyaanisqatsi
Not to mention that the last thing our society needs it to push the 'mustsucce-haveyouseenmyblackberry?-edatallcosts-where'smydamnblackberry' mentality forward by a decade.

edit: x-post

What we are arguing is that that is a result of the current practice. It would be less likely to occur with a change of how young adults (teenagers) are treated.

JM

[Jon Miller]

I will ask again, what good does having the summers off do? I know that for my education they were just something holding me and others int he class back. With just summers being included, you would complete what we do in 12 years in 9.

JM