Jesus take the wheel: Sextuplets keep dying

[Guynemer]

I'm not going to pull any punches in this post. Fair warning.

If, as the article states, these children were born 4.5 months early, that would put them at the 20-22 week gestation stage. It is absolutely unconscionable that her doctors even attempted to resuscitate these fetuses. The survivability odds at 20 weeks is nil; at 22, next to nil. And those who would survive would in no way live what we would call a "normal life." (I could be more precise if I knew their birth weights.)

If any survive, they will almost certainly have profound, irreversible brain damage, to such an extent that they will never be able to speak or otherwise communicate. They will also almost certainly require tracheostomies and gastrostomies to maintain their life. They will likely have other dysfunctions in other organs, depending on their NICU course.

Frankly, this smacks of physicians' best medical judgment being overwhelmed by their fear of bad publicity. Those children should have been allowed to pass without the torture they are now going through, and the endless suffering they will experience in the future.

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by Asher


I'm sure Jewish policy on multiple births is fascinating. Perhaps you can start a thread where you can have the children sit around the Torah and tell us all about it sometime.

Ah, I see you've followed my last instruction. Very good.

[Patroklos]

Both families declined, chosing to leave the outcome "in God's hands." The Morrisons are committed Christians who met at Bethany College of Missions and married in 2005.

You can be pro-life for non religious reasons, but still leave things in "God's hands" once those decisions are made.



Can we apply Asher logic to overpopulation in Africa please? Pretty pretty please!

[Asher]

Originally posted by Patroklos
You can be pro-life for non religious reasons, but still leave things in "God's hands" once those decisions are made.



Can we apply Asher logic to overpopulation in Africa please? Pretty pretty please!

How would you apply my logic regarding religion to Africa?

Africa is ****ed up, not the least of the reasons are the Christians prancing around Africa telling people condoms are evil and circumcision prevents HIV.

[PLATO]

Originally posted by Asher


Perhaps, instead of making factless leaps like this, you could consider doing some research.

http://www.abcnews.go.com/Health/story?id=3286009&page=1

"This is a serious medical complication [multiple births from fertility drugs] and predictably leads to extreme prematurity," suggested Dr. Richard J. Paulson of the USC Keck School of Medicine.

"It's one of the worse things that could happen to you," said the infertility specialist.

Others question why a woman in her early 20s who had been trying to get pregnant for about a year did not have other options, like trying longer.

Jenny Mashe, 32 and her husband Bryan, 29, used artificial insemination to conceive and were shocked when an ultrasound revealed she was carrying six fetuses.

Both the Morrisons and the Mashes were approached by their doctors about the option of "selective reduction" -- the aborting of all but one to three of the fetuses.

The intention is to increase the likelihood the remaining unborn children will survive, thrive and be delivered full term.

Both families declined, chosing to leave the outcome "in God's hands." The Morrisons are committed Christians who met at Bethany College of Missions and married in 2005.

This is a different article than the one you originally cited so my statement is still true.

However, I see that you were withholding information and actually have a quite valid point. I withdraw my argument.

[Asher]

I've read various articles on it. I thought it was widely known they were religious lunatics.

Hell, they tried to conceive for only a year...they're ~25 years old. Why did they rush out for medical intervention? Christ, they're stupid.

[Patroklos]

Experts say Africa's infrastructure and services are overwhelmed by drastic increases in population, alot of them carrying an epidemic level disease.

Asher solution, come to the logical conclusion and remove excess population overwhelming infrastructure and services.

The rest of us apply something other than an experts opinion to something affecting people's lives. Maybe religion, maybe some other moral compass.

Or maybe you have something other than cold numbers that might keep you from supporting genocide?

[Asher]

Originally posted by Patroklos
Experts say Africa's infrastructure and services are overwhelmed by drastic increases in population, alot of them carrying an epidemic level disease.

Asher solution, come to the logical conclusion and remove excess population overwhelming infrastructure and services.

Wow. Removing excess fetuses that causes all of them to die or be seriously disabled for the rest of their lives equates to genocide in your eyes.

Here's a better scenario: You're on a sinking boat with 6 people. There's two children, and two middle-aged adults, and two elderly citizens. You have a lifeboat that can only fit two people.

Do you keep everyone on the sinking boat putting your lives "in God's hands"? Or do you put the children on the lifeboat so they can live?

Life is about making hard choices...get used to it. This ain't no fairy tale.

The doctors told the couple that having 6 fetuses would complicate things. It is known to cause excessively premature births, and subsequently severe disabilities and deaths. They chose not to adhere to the advice, so instead of having two healthy children they're going to have 6 dead children or a mix of dead children and severely disabled children. Which one is more like genocide?

[PLATO]

What about the contribution the middle age adults might be making to society? What if the kids are just delinquents?

[Cort Haus]

I agree with Asher on this - these people's decisions make little sense. First, they have no patience, then they refuse to take the harsh decision necessary to see that some of their spawn has a future.

Another victory for fanaticism over common sense.

[Asher]

Originally posted by PLATO
What about the contribution the middle age adults might be making to society? What if the kids are just delinquents?

All kids are delinquents. It's part of their charm.

And middle aged adults are stupid. Throw rocks at them.

[PLATO]

Originally posted by Asher

All kids are delinquents. It's part of their charm.

And middle aged adults are stupid. Throw rocks at them.

[Guynemer]

Jesus Christ, I just realized what is going on in this thread.


Asher... is making sense.

I need to lie down in a dark, cool room, and reassess my outlook of the universe.

[Patroklos]

Wow. Removing excess fetuses that causes all of them to die or be seriously disabled for the rest of their lives equates to genocide in your eyes.

There is your problem Asher. They are not excess fetuses to me, but people. And I don't think that for any religious reason.

And they are not some detached 3rd party making the decison, they are parents.

Here's a better scenario: You're on a sinking boat with 6 people. There's two children, and two middle-aged adults, and two elderly citizens. You have a lifeboat that can only fit two people.

Do you keep everyone on the sinking boat putting your lives "in God's hands"? Or do you put the children on the lifeboat so they can live?

Not quite the same. Hint: Who is making the decisions in each instance???

Life is about making hard choices...get used to it. This ain't no fairy tale.

Coming from the videogame designer

Tell us all about your hard choices.

[Kuciwalker]

Originally posted by lord of the mark
I could post some interesting stuff on Jewish law and fertility drugs, and Jewish law and the dilemma of saving some babies out of a multiple pregnancy, but as Im sure none of you are interested in Judaism, I will return to the quest for kosher kimchee.

Please do [post]. At least two people here are actually interested in that.