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Is this song chauvinist?

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  • Is this song chauvinist?

    Simple enough question:


    Better than the entire world, is our Hindustan;
    we are its nightingales, and it (is) our garden abode

    Though in foreign lands we may reside, with our homeland our hearts abide,
    Regard us also to be there, where exist our hearts

    That mountain most high, neighbor to the skies;
    it is our sentinel; it is our protector

    In the lap of whose, play thousands of rivers;
    gardens they sustain; the envy-of-the-heavens of ours

    O waters of the Ganga mighty, do you recall the day
    when on your banks, did land the caravan of ours

    Religion does not teach us to bear ill-will among us
    We are Indians; India is our homeland.

    While Greece, Egypt , Rome have all been wiped out
    till now yet remains, this civilization of ours {it has stood the test of time}

    Something there is that keeps us,our entity from being eroded
    For ages has been our enemy, the way of the world

    Iqbal! Is there no soul that could
    understand the pain in thy heart?
    What about this one:


    China and Arabia is ours, India is ours
    We are muslims and the whole world is our homeland
    The treasure of tawhid is in our hearts,
    It is not easy to wipe out our name and mark.
    The first house we have liberated from idols is the ka'abah;
    We are its custodians, and she is our protector
    We have grown up in the shadows of swords,
    Our mascot is the crescent shaped dagger
    Our prayer calls have reverberated in the valleys of the west,
    The force of our flow could not be stopped by anyone
    O the skies! we will not be subdued by falsehood,
    You have tried (our steadfasteness) a hundred times!
    O, the garden of andalusia! do you remember those days -
    When our abode was the nest on your branches?
    O, the waves of tigris! surely, you recognize us -
    Your river tells our tales even to this day
    O, the pure land! we have bled and died for your honor,
    Our blood flows in your veins until now
    The leader of our caravan, is the Prince of Hijaz (Prophet Mohammad)
    It is his name that keeps our heart in comfort and peace.
    Iqbal's song is a clarion call
    For the caravan to rise and continue the journey once more

  • #2
    NO ONE CARES ABOUT INDIA. IT IS A DIRTY PLACE.

    PLEASE DISCUSS ANOTHER TOPIC, SUCH AS JUDAISM.
    "The issue is there are still many people out there that use religion as a crutch for bigotry and hate. Like Ben."
    Ben Kenobi: "That means I'm doing something right. "

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    • #3
      Do Jews own Bollywood as well?
      In da butt.
      "Do not worry if others do not understand you. Instead worry if you do not understand others." - Confucius
      THE UNDEFEATED SUPERCITIZEN w:4 t:2 l:1 (DON'T ASK!)
      "God is dead" - Nietzsche. "Nietzsche is dead" - God.

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      • #4
        Nah. Muslim own it. All dominated by Khans, and they love to bastardise the Hindi language as much as possible by Urduising it.

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        • #5
          aneeshm, try starting for once a thread that isnt about either india or evil islam

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          • #6
            He did. He started a thread which is about India and evil Islam.
            Why doing it the easy way if it is possible to do it complicated?

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            • #7
              Originally posted by aneeshm
              Nah. Muslim own it. All dominated by Khans,

              Like Madeline Kahn?
              "A person cannot approach the divine by reaching beyond the human. To become human, is what this individual person, has been created for.” Martin Buber

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              • #8
                We are muslims and the whole world is our homeland
                With apologies to Woody Guthery:

                My land is my land.
                Your land is my land.
                His land is my land.
                Their land is my land.

                'Cause if it's dry land,
                Then the land is my land.
                And if it's mud or fine sand,
                Why, then it's my land.

                But if it's water,
                Well, then it ought 'er,
                Dry up and be land,
                Then it'd be me's land.

                Because it's my land
                If it is dry land.
                And if it's wet land,
                Why then I get land.

                But if it ain't there.
                Then what do I care?
                But if it's real land.
                Why then I steal land.

                My land is my land.
                Your land is my land.
                His land is my land.
                Their land is my land.

                This land was made for only me!
                Last edited by Zkribbler; June 14, 2007, 19:35.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by lord of the mark



                  Like Madeline Kahn?


                  I thought about
                  Khan - Kahin/Kohn (a priest) similarity as well.
                  "I realise I hold the key to freedom,
                  I cannot let my life be ruled by threads" The Web Frogs
                  Middle East!

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Asher
                    NO ONE CARES ABOUT INDIA. IT IS A DIRTY PLACE.

                    PLEASE DISCUSS ANOTHER TOPIC, SUCH AS JUDAISM.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Patriotic? Nationalistic? YEs...\

                      Chauvinist? no.
                      Monkey!!!

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Is this song chauvinist?


                        Better than the entire world, is our Hindustan
                        that doesn't seem right.


                        Though in foreign lands we may reside, with our homeland our hearts abide
                        Hm, this could be an arguement against letting Hindu immigrants in.


                        While Greece, Egypt , Rome have all been wiped out
                        till now yet remains, this civilization of ours
                        That is simply untrue.

                        China and Arabia is ours, India is ours
                        We are muslims and the whole world is our homeland
                        The first line sounds a bit scary. It depends on understanding of what is ment as "having" India and China, and what is ment by "having entire world as homeland"; that there are muslims in every country, that islam is universal religion, or that, what was present in islamic thought, entire world should be brought under islamic rule. I guess the author ment the first, but the use of words is not fortunate - or perhaps its a conscious "wink" to the ones reading it.


                        The first house we have liberated from idols is the ka'abah;
                        That would be OK if not that Meccans didn't quite want to be liberated from the idols

                        We have grown up in the shadows of swords,
                        Our mascot is the crescent shaped dagger
                        Our prayer calls have reverberated in the valleys of the west,
                        The force of our flow could not be stopped by anyone
                        This I do not like as well, but countries, cultures etc like to boast with its conquests. In polish anthem there are only mentions of defensive wars, but I am not sure if it is the same elsewhere.

                        O, the pure land
                        I thought it'd be the national anthems of India and Pakistan, but I checked it and it seems I was wrong. What is it?
                        "I realise I hold the key to freedom,
                        I cannot let my life be ruled by threads" The Web Frogs
                        Middle East!

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          chauvinism
                          One entry found for chauvinism.


                          Main Entry: chau·vin·ism
                          Pronunciation: 'shO-v&-"ni-z&m
                          Function: noun
                          Etymology: French chauvinisme, from Nicolas Chauvin, character noted for his excessive patriotism and devotion to Napoleon in Théodore and Hippolyte Cogniard's play La Cocarde tricolore (1831)
                          1 : excessive or blind patriotism -- compare JINGOISM
                          2 : undue partiality or attachment to a group or place to which one belongs or has belonged
                          3 : an attitude of superiority toward members of the opposite sex; also : behavior expressive of such an attitude
                          They both are, the first by the first and second definitions, the second by the second definition.

                          Why do you ask?
                          "I have as much authority as the pope. I just don't have as many people who believe it." — George Carlin

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                          • #14
                            Just wanted to confirm.

                            BTW, I too think that they're both too chauvinist to be used by any real Indian nationalist. They just don't fit with the Indian ethos. The "progressives" in India like the first song, because it was written by a Muslim, and it's patriotic, but I don't like the chauvinist ethos of it.

                            Do you love your mother because she is the "Best mother in the world"? Or do you love her because she is your mother? And today if I wrote a song about love for the mother, saying all the time that "You're the best mother in the world", then wouldn't it be sick and perverse? Now India is the Motherland, and this attitude of comparing the Motherland to others is just not right, it is not Indic, it is twisted, and it should be dumped.

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by aneeshm
                              Do you love your mother because she is the "Best mother in the world"? Or do you love her because she is your mother? And today if I wrote a song about love for the mother, saying all the time that "You're the best mother in the world", then wouldn't it be sick and perverse?
                              You never had those "Worlds #1 Dad" mugs when you were a kid did you ...

                              I have no problem with telling my mom she's the best in the world; nor do I have a problem with a national anthem or similar saying that the nation it is anthem for is the best in the world. If you believe it, then sing it proudly! If you don't, then don't sing it... or work to make it true
                              <Reverend> IRC is just multiplayer notepad.
                              I like your SNOOPY POSTER! - While you Wait quote.

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