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**Drogue** · June 4, 2007, 07:06

True, but you just increase redistribution to account for that. In fact, it's quite possible to tax something that everyone consumes a similar amount of, like say gas, and then redistribute the same amount of money back to people, to lead to a better solution. This basically raises the price of gas, but doesn't make anyone worse of - it just means they purchase less gas (as the price is higher) and more of other goods (as they have the same spending power as before).

Admittedly that has admin costs, but it can be done efficiently if there's no means testing involved - just a straight handout. In the UK, anyone with a child collects child benefit each month, it's just automatically paid to everyone. Simple.

**KrazyHorse** · June 4, 2007, 07:22

Or how about they get rid of toll roads and increase gas taxes to pay for it? Flat tolls and low gas taxes subsidise heavy vehicles...

**KrazyHorse** · June 4, 2007, 07:25

Re: Re: Re: gas prices

Originally posted by Drogue

As much as you may be an ass at time

I choose to be an ass.

**Drogue** · June 4, 2007, 07:28

Depends if roads are tolled in order to ease congestion or to pay for road maintainance. Gas taxes work well for the latter, as the more gas-guzzling a machine, generally the heavier it is and the more damage it causes. But for congestion, an SUV has the same problems as a smaller car, really.

The only first-best solution is to use satellites and such to tax a car per mile based on the car it is and the time and place it's driving in (rush hour = more expensive to ease congestion, as there's a larger externality). But that's unfeasible, both technologically (due to price) and politically. So gas taxes act as a good second-best solution.

**Drogue** · June 4, 2007, 07:29

Re: Re: Re: Re: gas prices

Originally posted by KrazyHorse
I choose to be an ass.

Exactly. I could forgive people who are just born an ass.

**KrazyHorse** · June 4, 2007, 07:34

Originally posted by Drogue
Depends if roads are tolled in order to ease congestion or to pay for road maintainance.

Most tolls are for maintenance (in the US at least).

**KrazyHorse** · June 4, 2007, 07:35

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: gas prices

Originally posted by Drogue

Exactly. I could forgive people who are just born an ass.

Oh, Drogue. One day you'll wake up and realise that most people enjoy being abused. It's why I'm relatively well-liked.

**DAVOUT** · June 4, 2007, 08:15

Originally posted by Drogue

The only first-best solution is to use satellites and such to tax a car per mile based on the car it is and the time and place it's driving in (rush hour = more expensive to ease congestion, as there's a larger externality). But that's unfeasible, both technologically (due to price) and politically. So gas taxes act as a good second-best solution.

It is feasible. It works between Paris-LaDéfense and Poissy the fares are different depending of the hour and the day.

**Drogue** · June 4, 2007, 08:22

True, but these are small areas. For it to be a first-best solution it would need to be over a large area, so that alternative routes were also covered. Also, the pricing would have to match the congestion. We have a system that works in London (the congestion charge) that applies only at certain times and in a certain area, but the technology to have a transmitter in every car that means where it's driven can be plotted and taxes lvied as appropriate is pretty much unfeasible at the moment.

**Dauphin** · June 4, 2007, 08:37

Even if technologically possible, I wonder how easy enforcement would be.

I don't know how it's supposed to work, but I the way I see it portrayed is that it would be based on satnav style technology. A dashboard box records the time and route you take, and stores that information such that it can transmit the data (or a summary of cost like a gas meter would) via, say, a mobile phone network to a centralised system that then issues your 'bill'.

I would like to know how the system can be audited by meter inspectors.....

**KrazyHorse** · June 4, 2007, 08:44

I would like to know how you would accomplish that without an extreme violation of privacy...

**Provost Harrison** · June 4, 2007, 08:59

Well that is the major objection. Labour have quite a few ideas like this which allows the monitoring of our every move, if so desired. It is like the ID card which is not popular...and that cost a staggering amount of money, let alone how much some crazy car spying scheme would cost...

**Kidlicious** · June 4, 2007, 09:15

Re: Re: Re: Re: gas prices

Originally posted by Drogue
Using a search engine is free, how can the price be too high?

We don't pay for using it, but we still pay for it.

**Kidlicious** · June 4, 2007, 09:17

Originally posted by KrazyHorse
I would like to know how you would accomplish that without an extreme violation of privacy...

When you leave your private property or residence you don't have any rights to privacy.

**Kidlicious** · June 4, 2007, 09:20

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: gas prices

Originally posted by KrazyHorse
Oh, Drogue. One day you'll wake up and realise that most people enjoy being abused. It's why I'm relatively well-liked.

This might be a stupid question, but are there any other reasons to like you?

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