The great pizza face off!

[Arrian]

Pesto

-Arrian

[Imran Siddiqui]

Originally posted by Drogue
Of course it automatically has those on, but that doesn't make them not toppings. As I said, a pizza is a combination of bread and toppings, with cheese and sauce being the basic toppings. There are many, many types of pizza that don't have tomato sauce on them. Are they then not pizzas? Of course not, they're still pizzas, because they're still bread and toppings. The fact that the Margerita has become so standard does not mean that the cheese and sauce are not toppings. Many authentic Italian pizzas don't have tomato sauce on.

Tbh, I've never seen anyone order a pizza "plain".

If pizza is just "a combination of bread and toppings" many, many things becomes a 'pizza'. Quesadillas become pizzas (bread and toppings).

And no, I don't consider pies without tomato sauce and cheese to be actual pizza.

You see, to me, it just hides the flavour of the cheese and sauce, which I find a bit boring. Next you'll be saying that pasta should only have tomato sauce and parmesan on it? I mean, it's not like bolognase or carbonara are authentic pastas. It's the same with pizza. Just because the cheese and sauce pizza has become so popular, doesn't make it the automatic basis. Besides, I prefer flavours that accentuate the base - sundried tomatoes, chicken (occasionally a little spiced), sometimes a bit of beef, rosemary, I even had a spiced duck one once. All kept the flavour of a good sauce, herbs and a nice base.

Obviously never had a good pizza if you think just the cheese and sauce are boring (frankly I find this common among Brits... never had a decent pizza and feel the need to put all sorts of crap on it).

As for pasta, as said, it did come before the tomato. And had many different uses before the founding of the new world.

[Zkribbler]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
As for pasta, as said, it did come before the tomato. And had many different uses before the founding of the new world.

Good God, you're right! Pasta made it to Italy a good century before tomatoes! Oh, the horror!!!

[chequita guevara]

It made it before that. Pasta was brought to Italy by the Saracens when they took Sicily. Somehow or another, the Italians took couscous and came up with lasagna noodles. Marco Polo didn't need to bring pasta back from China, they already had it all around the Mediterranean. BTW, history of pasta books aren't as interesting as you might think they'd be.

[Drogue]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
If pizza is just "a combination of bread and toppings" many, many things becomes a 'pizza'. Quesadillas become pizzas (bread and toppings).

And no, I don't consider pies without tomato sauce and cheese to be actual pizza.

The Italian's do. Many different types of pizza evolved, and only some of those have tomato sauce and melted mozzarella on them. There's a while category of pizzas that has Bechamel sauce instead.

The word Pizza actually originated from a version of Latin and meant a flat bread, with words like pita originating from the same root. The addition of cheese came later, and sauce even later.

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
Obviously never had a good pizza if you think just the cheese and sauce are boring (frankly I find this common among Brits... never had a decent pizza and feel the need to put all sorts of crap on it).

As for pasta, as said, it did come before the tomato. And had many different uses before the founding of the new world.

Considering I've had pizza a few times while in Italy, in addition to New York, I'd beg to differ. Plus I make a pretty good pizza. I think however good bread, cheese and sauce you use, it's boring without anything else. That's not necessarily bad, but it's not to my taste. But then, I don't add things that I feel mask the taste, like chillis would, however I accept that's where we differ.

But really, it's not about me never having had good pizza. I could argue you've never had a good pizza with many toppings if you don't like it like that, but that would also not necessarily be true.

And Pizza was invented before tomatoes made it to Italy too.

[Drogue]

Originally posted by molly bloom


Different kettle of fish.

Pasta preceded tomatoes.

Why would pasta (any pasta) be restricted to having tomato sauce and parmesan on it for it to be an authentic pasta dish ?

Especially when sweet pasta was popular in the Renaissance...

Exactly. The same, IMHO, with pizza. Sweet pizza also exists, and why should it be restricted to those ingredients to make it authentic? Pasta with just tomato sauce and cheese is pretty boring. Why is pizza different? It just replaces one form of wheat with another. Add a bit of beef, or some chicken, or such, to pasta and it brings out some lovely flavours, and IMHO, the same with pizza.

[molly bloom]

Originally posted by chegitz guevara

Pasta was brought to Italy by the Saracens when they took Sicily.

Hmm.

I think they ate a form of baked pasta in Ancient Rome.

I'll have to check something like Reay Tannhill's 'Food In History' or The British Museum cookery book to be sure though...

Exactly.

Drogue


Say wha' ?


Pizza= a roundel of bread, baked in an oven, with a tomato sauce and a creamy cheese over this.

Everything else is pizza with toppings.

Sweet pizza also exists

Dear god, no...

why should it be restricted to those ingredients to make it authentic?

Because essence precedes existence.

Pasta with just tomato sauce and cheese is pretty boring.

I must beg to differ. Depends on the quality of the pasta, the flavour of the tomatoes and cheese.

And the seasoning...

Why is pizza different?

It's less versatile than pasta ?

You don't boil pizza, after all.

Pasta is baked, boiled, in broths and stews and in soups, you can coat it in a cheese sauce,a tomato sauce, a herb sauce, use just olive oil, or truffle oil, or pumpkin seed oil, have it spicy, or sweet, with meat, with fish, with fowl, with shellfish, with beans, with brassicas...

... now I'm seriously hungry. Dammit.

[Imran Siddiqui]

molly

And there is a reason that 'plain' is the most popular style. Because with a good pizza, that's ALL you need. No toppings. Nothing better than a good, right from the oven, plain (sauce and cheese) pizza from NY or NJ.

As for saying pasta with sauce and cheese is boring, you must be mental . Hell, I enjoy a some angel hair with good tomato sauce (and no parmesan... sometimes I forget ) every once in a while.

[Krill]

[q=Oerdin]And there is a reason that 'plain' is the most popular style. Because with a good pizza, that's ALL you need. No toppings. Nothing better than a good, right from the oven, plain (sauce and cheese) pizza from NY or NJ.
[/q]

That is like admitting that vegitarianism is the right way.

[Imran Siddiqui]

I'm not Oerdin and never wish to be .

And the only flaw is that vegitarianism ISN'T all you need . Protein is nice every once in a while... though you don't need to have it on pizza days .

[Krill]

Sorry but Oerdin is easier to type than Imran Siddiqui, so I'm calling you Oerdin every time drink alcohol from now on.

And I laugh at you stupid asszxumption that you can;t get all the protein that one needs from plants.

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by molly bloom
Hmm.

I think they ate a form of baked pasta in Ancient Rome.

Noodles and pasta aren't quite the same thing. The ancient Greeks had noodles too.

[Krill]

Noodles can be made from a variety of recipes

[Dinner]

Speaking of pasta I had a great penne today which I made by boiling organic whole wheat penne in salt water for 8 minutes, draining it, putting in garlic paste, chili paste, a can of anchovies which I basically pureed by smashing into little pieces, and adding in some Paul Newman's Vodka pasta sauce. Top with freshly ground pepper, mix well, and serve. Great stuff especially since I had it with a nice Cabernet Sauvignon from the Guadalupe valley (located an hour south of San Diego in Baja California). The seafood and pasta taste was great with a hearty Cab and the vodka sauce added just the right flavors.

[Krill]

As for pizza...Personally I prefer NYC, BUTChicage[/b] does go well with certain topppings, such as a massive pizza with lots of seafood toppings.