Art Thou Religious?

[Winston]

Ok.

Maybe it was docfeelgood you were thinking of earlier.

[MightyTiny]

Originally posted by SlowwHand
If a person doesn't understand faith, they have a tough row to hoe.

I think I understand faith pretty well, having had the benefit of seing it from both sides - as a Christian with faith, believing faith to be a virtue, and as an Atheist without it, seeing faith as a vice.

I agree about agnostics though, in that they are confused.

I think it comes down to a misconception about atheism and theism - I get the feeling that most agnostics who refuse to state a belief on either side of the fence are really doing so, consciuosly trying the difficult task of balancing on a thin line of neutral ground, because they think that to state a belief would somehow automatically mean that you are DOGMATICALLY stating an ABSOLUTE belief.

That's why "pure" agnostics (or confused agnostics) tend to harshly critisize atheists - they think that atheists are all gnostic atheists, making absolute claims about the non-existence of deities, when in fact, if there do exist gnostic atheists, I suspect they are all 12 years old, wearing goth clothes and smoking behind the corner to defy their mommies. In other words, gnostic atheism is an intellectual featherweight position, which doesn't survive critical consideration. But somehow, the gnostic "confused" doesn't see the more realistic agnostic atheist (or the agnostic theist) options.

I really suspect that most "pure" agnostics are actually either agnostic theists or agnostic atheists, whether they acknowledge it (to themselves) or not.

That's why I like to ask any "pure" agnostics to try this thought experiment:

Let's assume that you are an unwilling participant in a very strange game show, where you are asked one question "Is there a god or gods?" - and given only "yes" or "no" options.

If you pick the wrong answer, you are fed to the lions. If you get it right, you win a million dollars. If you refuse to answer, you are made to wear a silly hat AND fed to the lions.

Now the question I'd like to ask the agnostic, given that scenario, would you be content to determine your answer by flipping a coin?

A "true" agnostic, who is in reality either completely baffled by the question, or REALLY thinks that the evidence is perfectly balanced between the options, would have no trouble letting a coin flip determine his/her answer.... but I supect that most agnostics would rather answer themselves, and if so, then what they answer determines whether they are agnostic atheists or agnostic theist.

[Dr Strangelove]

Originally posted by Alexander I


If they're able to vote on it doesn't that prove that they're not under the English crown anymore?

A bunch of African Anglican bishops on the payroll of American fundamentalists/ dissident Anglicans want to give the Protestant Episcopal Church the axe for allowing a diocese in New Hampshire to install a gay man as a bishop. It turns out that they may have the votes to do so. The American group also wants to kick women out of the pulpits, so who knows, they may even kick the English out.

[OzzyKP]

catholic

[Alexander I]

Originally posted by Dr Strangelove


A bunch of African Anglican bishops on the payroll of American fundamentalists/ dissident Anglicans want to give the Protestant Episcopal Church the axe for allowing a diocese in New Hampshire to install a gay man as a bishop. It turns out that they may have the votes to do so. The American group also wants to kick women out of the pulpits, so who knows, they may even kick the English out.

Sounds like they're on the verge of a schism.

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by mrmitchell


A few wealthy, conservative parishes in Virginia voted to separate themselves from the Episcopal Church of the USA in protest of Gene Robinson's confirmation as the first gay bishop.

One of those congregations, in Falls Church, is not far from me. I was never under the impression it was particularly wealthy (as suburban Episcopal congregations go). Was I incorrect?

[SlowwHand]

Well, Doc, your man must be bumming out.
New Hampshire approved unions of gays today. I think I saw that somewhere, in passing.

[jaimela]

It's all the same crap, just a different pile so it really doesn't matter at the end of the day.

[Krill]

I recently decided to hedge my bets and try to follow the basics of Christianity. It isn't a great change, and it will probably help me clean up my life.

[Alexander I]

Originally posted by Krill
I recently decided to hedge my bets and try to follow the basics of Christianity. It isn't a great change, and it will probably help me clean up my life.

Good for you! IMHO beliefs of any sort are always preferable to no beliefs at all.

[Krill]

definately, atleast that belief in oneself is better than no belief

[Nostromo]

IMHO beliefs of any sort are always preferable to no beliefs at all.

You're kidding, right? Try to explain that to the followers of Jim Jones.

[MightyTiny]

Originally posted by Alexander I


Good for you! IMHO beliefs of any sort are always preferable to no beliefs at all.

I assume you mean religious beliefs - after all, there's no person on earth who doesn't believe in anything; that's a strawman that doesn't exist in reality. I believe that eating bananas is good for you, for example. But I don't believe it religiously - if new studies were to conclusively show that eating bananas is actually a health risk, I'd have no trouble revising that belief.

There are a lot of people who don't religiously believe in anything. If you ment that "holding religious beliefs of any sort is always preferable to holding no religious beliefs", then I'd be very interested in hearing why you think that.

What is it about believing something religiously, as opposed to believing things in a mundane sense, that makes it important - and important to who? The individual, or the society around him, or both?

And surely there are plenty of examples of things believed religiously which caused great harm to either the believer, the society around them, or both.

[MrFun]

Originally posted by SlowwHand

Methodist, to be exact.

Sorry to hear that, SlowwHand. You have my condolences for unwittingly straying in the error of your ways.

[MrFun]

Myself:


raised Catholic, but since age of 17, non-denominational Christian