Sealion, Anglo-German Alliance

[molly bloom]

Originally posted by Cort Haus
I can't believe you left out jazz musicians.

The queers, blacks and Jews just about had that covered.

[BeBMan]

Re "Racial admiration" - that sounds a bit strange, truth is people in Western Europe were generally seen not as "racially inferior" like those in the East. Most "Westerners" (Jewish people in the west not counted, they suffered equally) were also generally not treated as bad, for example during occupation or when being POWs.

Still there were warcrimes, massacres etc. as well in the West, but overall it's no comparison to the situation in Poland and the USSR.

The bit of admiration Hitler had towards the UK was more about the empire and it's might and global influence, hardly about race.

[molly bloom]

Originally posted by BeBro

The bit of admiration Hitler had towards the UK was more about the empire and it's might and global influence, hardly about race.

Yes, that's pretty clear from the Kershaw and Bullock bios of A.H. .

His admiration was more for the way the Evil British Aggressors Who Start Every War* ran such a large diverse empire with so small a standing army.


* for Ned, in exile.

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by molly bloom


Well, the British people who weren't:

Jewish
homosexuals
Roma
black or mixed race
ethnic minorities
Jehovah's Witnesses
democrats
Socialists
Communists
Liberals

et cetera.

I presume he thought brit democrats, liberals and socialists would roll over about as easily as their German counterparts had. Socialists in Germany had been somewhat harder to roll over, and relatively more Socialists in UK, but hardly any Communists.

Ethnic minorities? Only "non-Aryan" ones. Would he really have bothered the Welsh or even the Liverpool Irish? (well other than the leftists and homosexuals, of course)

[lord of the mark]

are you sure that his admiration of the Brit empire didnt have a racial basis? I havent read any recent bios, but I do recall reading that when Singapore fell, even though to his Japanese allies, he regretted the fall of a "bastion of the white race"

[BeBMan]

Well, that may be, I meant in comparison to other West-Europeans (or - at least white - Americans) the Brits afaik weren't esp. regarded as superior.

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by Cort Haus


We're a bunch of feckin' mongrels so any racial admiration he had would have been misplaced. What he did admire was the brutal and austere "public school" system which trained chaps up for empire. He supposedly modelled the Hitler Youth on it.

Mogrels? I dont think celtic, dutch, even Spanish admixtures would have bothered AH. In terms of 'non-aryans" were brits in 1940 really more "mongrels" than Germans were? More blacks and asians maybe (though not many) but fewer Jews and Roma and slavs. Heck, to be an aryan you only had to show aryan stock back two generations, unless you wanted to join the SS. To go back further would have uncovered too many Prussian aristos whos great grandfathers had married converted Jewish heiresses.

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by BeBro
Well, that may be, I meant in comparison to other West-Europeans (or - at least white - Americans) the Brits afaik weren't esp. regarded as superior.

I thought he quite specifically DID admire Brits more than Americans - the americans were "negrified in the South, and Judaized in the North" and looked forward to UK joining him in a war against the US. His view of Britain as more racially pure may have been hogwash, but my impression is that AH did believe it.

[BeBMan]

Originally posted by molly bloom


Yes, that's pretty clear from the Kershaw and Bullock bios of A.H. .

His admiration was more for the way the Evil British Aggressors Who Start Every War* ran such a large diverse empire with so small a standing army.


* for Ned, in exile.

*

Re army, yeah, he regularly whined about the poor condition of the Reichswehr in the late 1920ies and that it wasn't a match for British forces...

[BeBMan]

Originally posted by lord of the mark


I thought he quite specifically DID admire Brits more than Americans - the americans were "negrified in the South, and Judaized in the North" and looked forward to UK joining him in a war against the US. His view of Britain as more racially pure may have been hogwash, but my impression is that AH did believe it.

He certainly hated the US (as a whole) for being a "melting pot", but IIRC he also wrote in the "Nation and Race" chapter of "Mein Kampf" that the "germanic" part of the population has successfully taken the rule over North America, and that it will continue to rule as long as it manages to keep itself racially pure.

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by BeBro


He certainly hated the US (as a whole) for being a "melting pot", but IIRC he also wrote in the "Nation and Race" chapter of "Mein Kampf" that the "germanic" part of the population has successfully taken the rule over North America, and that it will continue to rule as long as it manages to keep itself racially pure.

"I don't see much future for the Americans... It's a decayed country. And they have their racial problem, and the problem of social inequalities... My feelings against Americanism are feelings of hatred and deep repugnance... Everything about the behavior of American society reveals that it's half Judaized, and the other half negrified. How can one expect a State like that to hold together?"
- In conversation on January 7, 1942; quoted in Rise and Fall of the Third Reich by William L. Shirer, p. 895;

I got this from a suspect site, but Ive read Shirer, and it matches what I remember. Im not sure of Shirer's source.

[BeBMan]

I don't doubt this, after all it's years after "Mein Kampf", and he's at war with the US (and as with the Brits he may have hoped they would rather see him rolling over the evil Bolsheviks doing nothing)

My point is that the centre of his racism was not so much to make a racial difference between (white) Brits or (white) French or (white) Americans (in what he saw as the pure version of each), it was the conflict between Aryan races (and these were not just German nationals, but other white, "germanic" westerners too) and (mainly) Jews. His racism didn't only mean that he saw people of other races inferior, he hated Jews especially because he thought they were parasites which destroy the "pure" germanic races everywhere.

[Ecthy]

Hitler described the USA as a decayed nation in Mein Kampf, but put them into another light in another book of 1928 that was never published. Even if he continued to call them that throughout the war as LOTM points out, he was sure aware of their future potential.

[Cort Haus]

Originally posted by lord of the mark
Mogrels? I dont think celtic, dutch, even Spanish admixtures would have bothered AH. In terms of 'non-aryans" were brits in 1940 really more "mongrels" than Germans were?

Sure, if we take a main mix of Brythonic Celts and Angles, Saxons and Jutes, with a few Romans and Scandie-Normans thrown in, then it's predominantly Aryan. Pre-war empire populations were fairly low compared with today.

Though, I have heard claims that there may have been a (gasp) imported ME element to the ancient Britons. The Saxons, it is claimed, pushed the Britons west into Wales, and many Welsh are dark-haired, dark-eyed and even relatively dark-skinned, compared to the pale redheads and blonds associated with the Celts.

My own dark physical characteristics may be attributed to the Welsh side of my lineage. :ethnocentrism: This is irrelevant though, as I suppose 1940 Britain was predominantly as Aryan as Germany.

[Ecthy]

In the views of Hitler the people of Great Britain weren't much different from Germans. keep in mind that NS racial ideology was not based on ethnological or linguistic science as we know it today. It was pure mythical bull**** and built more around measuring heads and faces and evaluating dominant/submissive behaviour than actual comparison on a linguistical or cultural basis.