FBI thwart terrorist attack in New Jersey

[Asher]

The big thing about Fort Dix is apparently it was entrapment.

[Dinner]

That's what the guys are claiming. They're claiming the FBI approached them offering to sell guns. You'd figure anyone who isn't a ****** would wonder who the hell would approach them out of the blue offering to sell automatic weapons and how they knew about this group of idiots.

[Imran Siddiqui]

Originally posted by Oerdin
That's what the guys are claiming. They're claiming the FBI approached them offering to sell guns. You'd figure anyone who isn't a ****** would wonder who the hell would approach them out of the blue offering to sell automatic weapons and how they knew about this group of idiots.

Even that, though, isn't entrapment. Entrapment is the police making you do something you normally wouldn't do (making an otherwise unwilling person commit a crime). If they just approached offering to sell guns and you accept, you haven't been entraped because you obviously were willing to buy the guns.

[KrazyHorse]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui


Even that, though, isn't entrapment. Entrapment is the police making you do something you normally wouldn't do (making an otherwise unwilling person commit a crime). If they just approached offering to sell guns and you accept, you haven't been entraped because you obviously were willing to buy the guns.

It actually depends on whether or not the government can show that the accused demonstrated a prior willingness to commit the crime in question.

If there is no evidence that the accused attempted to purchase automatic weapons from another source first (or at least talked about purchasing automatic weapons) then the government's case will indeed run into an entrapment problem.

See Jacobson v. United States

[Imran Siddiqui]

But in Jacobson, the court noted extreme pressure placed on the defendant. And his willingness was after about 2 years of the government trying to convince him this was ok.

While there was an investigation here, that wasn't the case. They were approached once. Unless the agents badgered them, I don't think the willingness concern is an issue.

[Arrian]

Seriously, if they cops offer to sell guns and the guys accept right off the bat, and that's entrapment, that's a stupid ****ing rule.

-Arrian

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by Arrian
Seriously, if they cops offer to sell guns and the guys accept right off the bat, and that's entrapment, that's a stupid ****ing rule.

-Arrian

Buncha congressmen we owe an apology to, also.

[KrazyHorse]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
But in Jacobson, the court noted extreme pressure placed on the defendant. And his willingness was after about 2 years of the government trying to convince him this was ok.

While there was an investigation here, that wasn't the case. They were approached once. Unless the agents badgered them, I don't think the willingness concern is an issue.

The court also made a point of noting that the defendant had not demonstrated prior inclination to specifically commit the crime in question.

If it was a simple "would you like to buy automatic weapons" and the accused agreed, then the government might be able to successfully argue against entrapment.

I don't know that it's locktight, however.

[chequita guevara]

Like anyone would have noticed.

[Apocalypse]

1. The idea of committing the crime came from law enforcement officers, rather than the defendant.
2. The law enforcement officers induced the person to commit the crime. Courts have traditionally maintained a high burden of proof for inducement. Simply affording the defendant the opportunity to commit the crime does not constitute inducement. For inducement to be proved, officers must have used coercive or persuasive tactics.
3. The defendant was not ready and willing to commit this type of crime before being induced to do so. If an undercover cop bought cocaine from a person carrying a kilogram of the drug, the seller could not plead entrapment, even if coercion were involved in the sale, since his intent to sell was clear. Most courts also allow a defendant's predisposition to be demonstrated through prior conduct or reputation.

[Dinner]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui

Even that, though, isn't entrapment. Entrapment is the police making you do something you normally wouldn't do (making an otherwise unwilling person commit a crime). If they just approached offering to sell guns and you accept, you haven't been entraped because you obviously were willing to buy the guns.

I agree. Those guys supposedly are now claiming that the FBI entrapped them but that doesn't make it so.

[Dr Strangelove]

Were they arrested on their way to attack the base or were they nabbed while purchasing the weapons?

Anyway this is yet another case proving that surrepetitious wiretapping is totally necessary to protect America!