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What Are They Trying to Pull?

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  • What Are They Trying to Pull?

    BYU is one of the nation's most conservative schools, and yet the few liberals there are so offended by this that they freak out and go for a second, alternative commencement with Ralph Nader, of all people. I really don't see what the problem is. I mean, I'm a moderate and certainly no Cheney or Bush fan, but if it were me, I would think it was cool that the Vice President was coming to speak at my graduation. I guess it wouldn't have been such a big deal except that the same crowd of offended liberals was screaming "freedom of speech" when the Republicans wanted to block Michael Moore from speaking in Utah a few years back.



    PROVO, Utah --Some students and faculty on one of the nation's most conservative campuses want Brigham Young University to withdraw an invitation for Vice President Dick Cheney to speak at commencement later this month.

    Critics at the school question whether Cheney sets a good example for graduates, citing his promotion of faulty intelligence before the Iraq war and his role in the CIA leak scandal.

    The private university, which is owned by the Mormon church, has "a heavy emphasis on personal honesty and integrity in all we do," said Warner Woodworth, a professor at BYU's business school.

    "Cheney just doesn't measure up," he said.
    Woodworth is helping organize an online petition asking that the school rescind its invitation to the vice president. In its first week, the petition collected more than 2,300 signatures, mostly from people describing themselves as students, alumni or members of the church.

    The display of dissent is rare for a university that has been voted the nation's most "stone-cold sober" school nine years in a row in the annual Princeton Review of party schools.

    Students at BYU adhere to a strict honor code that forbids everything from drinking coffee to wearing shorts or short skirts. The school's 30,000 students seldom even stray from campus sidewalks, leaving its lawns pristine.

    "Cougars don't cut corners," is how one saying describes students, most of whom belong to The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.

    But student Diane Bailey, who is leading a protest Wednesday against Cheney's visit, said students are not "robotic conservatives."

    Bailey and others are upset by Cheney's role in promoting faulty intelligence that led the U.S. into the Iraq war. They also cite his proximity to the CIA leak scandal in which his chief of staff, I. Lewis "Scooter" Libby, was convicted of perjury and obstruction of justice.

    Cheney's BYU speech is the first of two commencement addresses he is scheduled to give this spring. The other will be May 26 at the U.S. Military Academy at West Point.

    Both are institutions where Cheney could have expected to receive a warm reception, Woodworth said.

    Utah has consistently supported the administration, delivering President Bush his largest margin of victory in any state in 2000 and 2004. In Utah County, home to BYU, about 85 percent of voters chose the Bush-Cheney ticket in 2004.

    Richard Davis, a political-science professor and adviser for the college Democrats, said the uproar over Cheney's visit is evidence of a rift within the school and church that belies the faith's larger claim of being politically neutral.

    "He should be invited to come. He should speak. But let's not send the signal that we're abandoning our political neutrality," Davis said. "There is no political gospel in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints."

    The church has a policy of political neutrality and issues an annual statement declaring that both major political parties include ideals that Mormons could embrace.

    "It's one thing to invite some milquetoast Republican. But Dick Cheney?" Davis said. The protest reflects lack of support for Cheney, as well as "the larger issue of diversity and more liberal people within the BYU community and within the LDS church."

    Historically dissent has not been well received at the school. Last year, a BYU professor wrote a newspaper opinion piece opposing the church's call for a constitutional ban on gay marriage. In response, the school announced it would not renew Jeffrey Nielsen's contract.

    Cheney's office said his commencement speech would not have a political theme.

    The school approved a permit for the college Democrats' Wednesday protest and is working on finding a protest site for the day of Cheney's speech.

    "We recognize that members of our campus community are entitled to their opinions," said university spokeswoman Carri Jenkins. "Political neutrality does not mean there cannot be any political discussion."
    Discuss.
    The Apolytoner formerly known as Alexander01
    "God has given no greater spur to victory than contempt of death." - Hannibal Barca, c. 218 B.C.
    "We can legislate until doomsday but that will not make men righteous." - George Albert Smith, A.D. 1949
    The Kingdom of Jerusalem: Chronicles of the Golden Cross - a Crusader Kings After Action Report

  • #2
    Well, I wouldn't want a war criminal speaking at my graduation. How would this be any different?
    "The purpose of studying economics is not to acquire a set of ready-made answers to economic questions, but to learn how to avoid being deceived by economists."
    -Joan Robinson

    Comment


    • #3
      People should be free to voice their dissent about things like this. Not a big deal... someone is always going to be upset when things aren't going their way.

      I guess it wouldn't have been such a big deal except that the same crowd of offended liberals was screaming "freedom of speech" when the Republicans wanted to block Michael Moore from speaking in Utah a few years back.
      There was a lawsuit filed to stop Michael Moore from speaking at Utah Valley Community College. If a lawsuit were filed to try to stop Cheney from speaking, then we'd have a proper analogy. I haven't heard about one yet.

      Opposing state sensorship of speakers, and demonstrating to voice your opinion about who should speak, are not mutually-exclusive positions.

      Comment


      • #4
        Utah is weird. What more is there to know?
        Life is not measured by the number of breaths you take, but by the moments that take your breath away.
        "Hating America is something best left to Mobius. He is an expert Yank hater.
        He also hates Texans and Australians, he does diversify." ~ Braindead

        Comment


        • #5
          "Cheney just doesn't measure up,"
          fair assessment

          Comment


          • #6
            Blah...I am jealous they are at least getting someone high profile.

            We are stuck with the governor of Virginia. I don't even know who that is and I am living in the state. We almost had Tom Hanks and we could have had Arnold Schwarzenegger if we asked sooner.
            "Yay Apoc!!!!!!!" - bipolarbear
            "At least there were some thoughts went into Apocalypse." - Urban Ranger
            "Apocalype was a great game." - DrSpike
            "In Apoc, I had one soldier who lasted through the entire game... was pretty cool. I like apoc for that reason, the soldiers are a bit more 'personal'." - General Ludd

            Comment


            • #7
              Maybe you can make a trade. Throw in some ham.
              Life is not measured by the number of breaths you take, but by the moments that take your breath away.
              "Hating America is something best left to Mobius. He is an expert Yank hater.
              He also hates Texans and Australians, he does diversify." ~ Braindead

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by SlowwHand
                Utah is weird. What more is there to know?
                QFT.
                "The purpose of studying economics is not to acquire a set of ready-made answers to economic questions, but to learn how to avoid being deceived by economists."
                -Joan Robinson

                Comment


                • #9
                  what is QFT

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    quoted for truth
                    "Yay Apoc!!!!!!!" - bipolarbear
                    "At least there were some thoughts went into Apocalypse." - Urban Ranger
                    "Apocalype was a great game." - DrSpike
                    "In Apoc, I had one soldier who lasted through the entire game... was pretty cool. I like apoc for that reason, the soldiers are a bit more 'personal'." - General Ludd

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Quite Frackin' True...
                      Apolyton's Grim Reaper 2008, 2010 & 2011
                      RIP lest we forget... SG (2) and LaFayette -- Civ2 Succession Games Brothers-in-Arms

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Apocalypse
                        Blah...I am jealous they are at least getting someone high profile.

                        We are stuck with the governor of Virginia. I don't even know who that is and I am living in the state. We almost had Tom Hanks and we could have had Arnold Schwarzenegger if we asked sooner.
                        Apocalypse

                        Tim Kaine

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          I don't mind their dislike of Cheney one little bit. The only thing that bothers me is the double standard regarding speakers of opposing political ideologies.
                          The Apolytoner formerly known as Alexander01
                          "God has given no greater spur to victory than contempt of death." - Hannibal Barca, c. 218 B.C.
                          "We can legislate until doomsday but that will not make men righteous." - George Albert Smith, A.D. 1949
                          The Kingdom of Jerusalem: Chronicles of the Golden Cross - a Crusader Kings After Action Report

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Alexander I
                            I don't mind their dislike of Cheney one little bit. The only thing that bothers me is the double standard regarding speakers of opposing political ideologies.
                            Where's the double-standard? I mean the situations are not analogous. Allowing someone to randomly speak somewhere is not the same as allowing someone to speak at your graduation.
                            "The purpose of studying economics is not to acquire a set of ready-made answers to economic questions, but to learn how to avoid being deceived by economists."
                            -Joan Robinson

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Victor Galis
                              Where's the double-standard? I mean the situations are not analogous. Allowing someone to randomly speak somewhere is not the same as allowing someone to speak at your graduation.
                              Well, UVSC was using practically their entire budget that year to pay for a long lecture from Michael Moore and then a later rebuttal from Sean Hannity, and Cheney only spoke for 15 minutes at BYU.

                              My point is not the situation -- it's the people's attitude. How can one justify being both offended at attempts to "deny free speech" by preventing Moore from speaking about his politics in a school-sponsored forum for an hour and offended that somebody got Dick Cheney to prattle off 15 minutes of fluff about why it's "good" to have a degree?

                              It's a double standard because the "right-to-be-heard" only applies to people they agree with. Since the conservatives can't stand hearing democrat-speech, they raised oodles of money to pay for Sean Hannity to come for a rebuttal to Moore, and now the liberals have raised gobs more to get Ralph Nader to come and do a separate graduation ceremony since they can't bear to hear a republican speak for a couple minutes about nothing.

                              It was never about free speech, it was only ever about politics. So shallow.
                              The Apolytoner formerly known as Alexander01
                              "God has given no greater spur to victory than contempt of death." - Hannibal Barca, c. 218 B.C.
                              "We can legislate until doomsday but that will not make men righteous." - George Albert Smith, A.D. 1949
                              The Kingdom of Jerusalem: Chronicles of the Golden Cross - a Crusader Kings After Action Report

                              Comment

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